Upadesh Saar : Verse 11 (Day 1)

Su: Gurudev's thought for the day:
A complete and fully rewarding "philosophy of life" must contain three gospels - "The Gospel Of Krishna", "The Gospel Of Laughter" and the "The Gospel Of Work".
Let us live fully obeying these three Gospels in our day-to-day life. Certainly then we will come to enjoy what is the best that is possible in this world.
"The Gospel Of Krishna" will bring us worldly peace and spiritual unfoldment.
"The Gospel Of Laughter" shall bring us relaxation, health and rewarding glory.
"The Gospel Of Work" shall make us partners with Him in His great-grand-plan for the world.
These three alone can bring us in themselves, enduring achievements in life. We must taste this; the supreme privilege and prerogative of our higher evolution as man..... We Must.

Source:
Book - Chinmaya Lahiri
Topic - Laugh Away
Page - 64

SS: Verse 11: By the restrain of the pranas the mind becomes absorbed. This is a means of checking the mind like the birds trapped in the net.

Vaayu-rodhanaat leeyate manah.
Jaala-pakshivat rodha-saadhanam.

Ramana maharshi starts the raja yoga description now. Why does he give the analogy of birds trapped in the net?

JV: I understand the part of feeling trapped. Also full focus on the self. However can't link it beyond this. It would definitely make you alert.
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KG: The moment the trap is removed, the birds fly of in the directions possible. Mind too, has a natural tendency to keep chewing on objects. So the means here looks like the way to make sure Mind has limited movement or moment in the direction required.
Also the Hunter fools the birds into the trap. Can we fool our OWN MIND into a trap :) thinking...

RP: Our minds tend to fly freely and usually to the past or future. Trapping example given here and the net used is prana or breathing (vayuu) suggests absorbing the mind in the present. Like the birds trapped in the net are grounded but at the same time alive and alert too.

GP: Good one ram!
The mind left unrestrained tends to fly free in multiple directions with no focus.
We have learned that there is a direct correlation between our prana (breathing) and the state of the mind.
Breath control can keep the mind grounded and focused and absorbed in the subject. So the prana acts like a net over the mind and keeps it from flying in all directions.

Su: Iam sure there is a definite science behind regulation of breath and mind management. Since it is difficult to bring the mind into single pointed focus just like that.... this method is the tool used.
The bird analogy as others have said is symbolic of how the mind hops from one preoccupation to another when left free. It goes in the direction it wants. But when restrained with the net of pranayama it can be kept in one place.

NP: Through the net the birds can see the world but it's experience is restricted. ??

‎KG: The Hunter(Intellect) becomes the Master of the birds(Mind). The birds have no choice but to be play in the restricted environment and fly off at any mistake from the Hunter (Demands Smartness so the Mind doesn't outwit).
Not sure if the verse conveys bringing the mind to Present. Pranayama as a tool to absorb the mind - I thought this means still the mind - thoughtlessness. Is being in the Present devoid of thoughts? Not clear to me.

Su: I think over here it means not allowing the mind to wander in the different fields that is does. So restrict the movement of the mind to experience that state...

Upadesh Saar : Verse 10 (Day 2)

Su: Gurudev's thought for the day:
At each moment man has limited freedom to follow either the path of good or the path of pleasant.  Certainly,  man has not got a complete and unlimited freedom over the external circumstances but he has been given this limited freedom to be good or to be vicious in his moment to moment contact with the external world.  This limited liberty is the real character of freedom for the man,  by a wise use of which he can soar into the greater realms of perfection and become himself the God.

GP: Krishna, I also think that is how it is or is being indicated.
That the goal of all these paths is the same - awareness and then abidance in our true nature, our true Self.

This declaration also should give us all of us hope and inspiration. Because it says that whichever path we choose, depending on our personality and inclinations, we do not have to wonder if we're on the right path. We do not have to fret and wonder which path is better or superior or inferior.

What is important is to remember that whichever path we choose, the final destination is this state of abidance.

Now the question is : who has ascertained this? (it is said here that 'it has been ascertained')

Su: Agreed.... but this declaration can also give rise to licentiousness.  I guess having the right knowledge of the path and some structure to it is important.  Too much flexibility is also dangerous.

All paths lead to the same goal,  but how will I know it's right for me.  Is there a thing like some paths are more conducive for certain personalities and detrimental for some.  Is there some guidelines or is it that one starts walking along the path as per ones inclination and along the way experience teaches..... if the Guru is there to guide then will he stop some student from pursuing a path that is not conducive...
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KG: On who has ascertained - was assuming realized Masters using reasoning methodologies (Nyaya - logic)?

I too share Sunita's questions on which is the psychology test to be taken to ascertain THE PATH for this life. If there is no standard test, we have to rely on others advice or experiment each one.
I feel, each of paths followed require a very purist attitude labelling him a Bhakta or Karmi or Gyani etc. But can that be possible for initiates like us. Do we perfectly fall in a category. Don't we luv a bit of all paths.

SS: This verse is in the middle because it throws light on 2 yogas covered and 2 yet to be covered and tells us that all are for the same purpose. It is called dehli-deepa-nyaaya in sanskrit. A lamp kept at the threshold of a room will illumine outside and inside both.

Each one has to know by themselves whether they are predominantly action oriented or emotion oriented or knowledge oriented and choose the path accordingly. We all need a mix of all 3 because all have BMI but one path chosen consciously helps to evolve faster.

Another aspect is whichever path is chosen, the other two are already there in it. Think over it. So you buy 1 and get 2 free. 😄

JV: Yes totally agree. It is buy 1 get 2 free. Interesting. Krishna would totally appreciate this. What say?
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KG: 😄
Indirectly, ghooma ghoomake sab kuch karvarahe hai 😕

Swamiji, are these the Only fundamental paths (4 in all) ?

SS: Yes in vedanta there are only these 4 paths

NP: I think one gravitates to the path according to ones vasanas. We will choose only that path. Gurudev too has not restricted the activities of the mission to any one path. So it is more like one huge umbrella where each one can take shelter.
Also I feel sometimes we do deviate from our chosen path according to time and circumstances, and our mental state.
As long as one is walking the path and moving forward there will be growth.
Sorry I've been typing in bits and pieces.
 

Upadesh Saar : Verse 10 (Day 1)

Su: Gurudev's thought for the day:
SAVE me help me please. As the slave of my passions, and a non-believer, all these years I know, I have no right to seek Thy help now. True,  I have no faith to meet Thee. I have nothing to offer except my own tears,  the fatigue of my indulgences, the canker of my selfishness, the sweat of my passions and the cords of my attachments. In fact, I don't really deserve to be saved,  yet,  Lord, Iam tired, trashed out completely, exhausted thoroughly - helplessly, wholly..... I surrender myself to Thee and Thy Grace.
Such a feeling of total surrender,  generated in this mental mood,  is called 'devotion' - true devotion of the heart.

GP: Ram, beautiful references to the bhajans

NP: Superb explanation Ram!

SS: Verse 10: it has been ascertained that the goal of the Yoga of action, devotion, ashtanga yoga and yoga of knowledge is the abidance of the mind in the heart(One's own Nature).

Hrt-sthale manah svasthataa kriya.
Bhakti-yoga-bodhaascha nischitam.
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KG: Doubt, why is this verse in the middle? We are yet to cover Astanga and Gyana yoga in the text.

Referring to Swamiji's reply to my question on Karma Yoga, indeed Bhakti and Karma are merging their paths in this goal.
By reference of all the Four paths, is more to be inferred...

Read Guruji's explanation - "goal of all spiritual practices is this abidance in SELF...its validated by Masters."

So indicating that the next set of Yogas are also culminating at same goal.

I see a need for a synthetic (mix) of all these paths. One path may predominate but I feel at this stage all may be required in some dose. Is that fine? Or a longer or shorter route as compared 2 purists?

Upadesh Saar : Verse 9 (Day 3)

‎RP: On the verse on supreme devotion - couple of related lines from popular bhajans-

1. Kabirdas - Prem gali ati sankri, tamein dou na samai. Jab mein tha tab Hari nahin, ab Hari hai mein nahin.
Hari and I (ego) can't co-exist. When completely identified with Hari - I disappear - the state of supreme devotion.

2. Meerabai. From the Famous bhajan - ghoongat ke pat khol tohe piya milenge
Soone mandir diya jalaake, aasan se mat dol re, ghoongat ke pat khol re , tohe piya milenge.
Talks of stillness (contemplation) and the ghoongat refers to thoughts ( of duality).
In the stillness of contemplation remove thoughts of duality - you will be united with The Lord. (Popular reference to ghoongat in suhag raat concept. As long as ghoongat exists no milan happens.)

Su: Gurudev's thought for the day:
Ruthless discrimination is the secret of success.

However hungry you are, you will not eat a dead man, because your discrimination tells you of the abominable nature of the act. No lusty person,  even if he is of Ravana type, will think of embracing a dead queen. A man dying of thirst will not dare to drink some molten iron.
In all these cases our average discrimination tells us that the cure is more dangerous than the disease.

Similarly in our acute awareness, if we have brought, as a logical conclusion, the firm conviction that this world of objects - including our children, wealth,  possessions, our own body, mind and intellect - are all finite that brilliantly dance around us for a certain period of time and will certainly disappear without any notice or warning....

If this realization has come to our personal understanding,  certainly we shall get love and affection, and also learn to enjoy everything around us, but at the same time there would be a constant warning from somewhere deep in ourselves that nothing is permanent and that we should not barter away our existence depending entirely upon the finite bubbles of life.
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KG: Super examples Ramkumarji.
 

Upadesh Saar : Verse 9 (Day 2)

Su: Gurudev's thought for the day:
We are a three-faceted equipment.  Where the body is at work, the mind of the worker should stand receptive and responsive, and his intellect alert and discriminative,  should assume full command of the body and the mind.  Such three-fold concentration is referred to as single pointedness and is indeed very hard to attain. Much sincere,  regular practice is needed - of polishing and integrating the personality.

JV: When we manifest devotion for a form, knowing very well that the power behind that form is all pervading, you starts seeing the supreme power in every activity of universe. To such an extent that you feel the presence of the  entity in everything and finally only the that presence no more of I is felt.
The form is basically a reference point. A trigger.

Su: Ok,  Iam unable to  intellectually grasp the concept of devotion with non duality.  If I identify with something how can I be devoted to it after that.

SS: Devotion with non-duality means devotion in its highest form is non-duality. Devotee and Lord merge. Devotion alone remains.

Like sleeper and sleeping cease and sleep alone remains

Su: Yes now I got it... thanks Swamiji.

JV: Absolutely.
 

Upadesh Saar : Verse 9 (Day 1)

SS: Verse 9: by the strength of the though(soham) firm abidance in the Existence principle is gained which is free from all thought modifications. This is supreme devotion.

Bhaava-shunya-sat-bhaava-susthitih.
Bhaavanaa-balaat bhaktiruttamaa.

Su: Gurudev's thought for the day:
The body is what it is because of its Prarabdha. Because of your Vasanas you have taken this body. Today the body moves, every minute, expressing its powerful Vasanas. The body will drop off once the Vasanas are exhausted. Till then it will continue to exist, food or no food. It will be looked after by its own Prarabdha.
If my body is not getting food, I become anxious for it. However, when this body was born, it was born without consulting me. The mighty Law by which it was born will keep it going for the purpose for which it was born, if it falls off, never mind, let it go.
Understanding this well, strengthen your mind and protect it from all such agitations.

MN: How can body have its Prarabdha?
Our actions determines our Prarabdha...Am I correct?

NB: I guess it means actions done by the body

JV: Nope body is inert and in capable of acting on its own.

MN: Yes so what does that statement means

NB: Mmm actions done by the jiva who is the BMI? ??

SS: Pl read the quote again. Gurudev has explained it in the quote itself clearly

MN: 🙏

SS: To exhaust certain vasanas which are due to past karma, we take bodies. Till those vas anas n karmas are there body will be there. Then it drops off. The vasanas n karmas which are ready to give results are called prarabdha. To exhaust it, a body is required. Hence Gurudev used the expression prarabdha of the body. Karmas are done by jeeva and phala also experienced by jeeva. Body is required for this.

NB: When we contemplate on ' i am consciousness' continuously then the I drops and ' am consciousnes ' remains which is the existance principal and leads to non-duality. This is purest form of bhakti.
Am not very sure if my interpretation is right.so i didn't say Swamiji

‎KG: This is like the example you gave Swamiji of someone calling a boy named "Krishna".
Karma yoga that we discussed earlier resulted only in Chitta Shuddhi (purity of mind), but Bhakti yoga has culminated in the merger of the self in HIM.

MN: Swamiji I had a basic question does Prarabhdha and destiny mean the same or are they different...when we say ' It's my Prarabhdha' it means destiny..right?

Su: Sorry Swamiji I was caught up in few urgent things hence could not participate.  Will be able do to so from now on.  Apologise

VS: Swamiji... Regarding verse 9 does thought modification means various thoughts about The Lord his name, beauty, glories etc. So there are still various thoughts in the mind. Again in Nirguna contemplation there are thoughts logically analyzing or appreciating. That's the reason they are called interrupted contemplation. While in Soham there only one thought, no more analysis(bhava shunya) so lesser interruption. At this point there is total complete surrender, no more analysis to be done. This total and complete trust, faith or surrender is greatest Bhakti.
Because now the merger has happened.
Any comments...

SS: I will reply to everyone in the evening

VS: Swamiji evening...
Good evening

SS: Nityamukta: from bhakti with duality where one worships the Lord and feels one is different, one moves to the feeling of oneness and attempts union with the Lord through soham and ultimately comes to realise the state of oneness which is beyond all thoughts. This is the highest form of bhakti called paraa-bhakti.

Krishna: karma yoga also led to supreme realisation when it was said whole world is seen as HIS manifestation. Bhakti yoga also leads to the Supreme as described above

Mitesh: prarabdha is destiny - past karma.

Vinod, read the explanation given to nityamukta. Thats the meaning of verse 9

VS: Thank you Swamiji! Ok Swamiji and I'll confirm my understanding.

GP: Swamiji, without this clarity the verse can be confusing.
Because our normal understanding of devotion is that it is possible only in duality. But here, the devotion that is being referred to has no altar, no devotee and no act of devotion.

SS: Yes. This is the state of oneness where the Lord, devotee and devotion disappear. It is called sadhya-bhakti. The devotion with an altar is called aparaa bhakti or sadhana-bhakti.

One of the etymological meanings of bhakti is - bhanj aamardane, which means to break and destroy. Devotion destroys attachment on one hand and duality on the other. Hence in hindi we always say bhakt wo jo kabhi vibhakt na ho. Devotee is one who is never separate from the Lord

SR: Swamiji, when non duality disappears, then what happens to rituals and pooja, i guess there is no need anymore bcos one doesnot see the Lord as separate entity.

SS: There is no need but masters may do it to set example for others to do. Like Gurudev used to do japa and also establish temples etc

GP: That's the beauty of their large-heartedness
They have gone beyond all this and yet they will do this for us

VS: Yes

NB: Thank you Swamiji for.clarifying😊🙏

Upadesh Saar : Verse 8 (Day 3)

Su: Gurudev's thought for the day:
If,  after all our efforts the Vasanas are not totally exhausted, then the balance that remains to trouble us is called "destiny".
Man can change his destiny not by wishing for it.. but by working for it.

SS: Verse 8 is speaking about bhakti because pooja and japa were described earlier and next stage is contemplation. What is contemplation in the context of bhakti?

VS: Hari Om Swamiji and everyone! Coming to verse 8,    I need to think about Lord Krishna as not the name and the form but Him as the omnipresent and the cause of everything in the world by the rule of negation.
Any comments...

AD: Contemplation with regards to bhakti Nirguna with form is one type of contemplating and saguna the formless which is ultimately we. Have to reach

VS: Yes I remember reading Saguna is interrupted and Nirguna is uninterrupted Contemplation
So does that mean focused imagination of the Lord's form is Contemplation? Does imagination of His Glories also fall under Contemplation?
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KG: I think in Bhakti - Reflection is about knowing and being convinced of the Glories of the form of Lord chosen. Contemplation may be more subtle.

SS: Thinking of the Lord as different from oneself and hence contemplation on His name, form, attributes, abode, leelas etc is contemplation with difference. Contemplating on oneness with Him through Soham or feeling oneness with HIM through surrender is contemplation without difference.  In both these, interruptions happen as per our purity of mind and devotion.
Contemplation on oneness with the Lord is indeed subtler than on His name, form etc
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KG: Arunaji, I think
Nirguna = Attributeless/Formless. Hope u meant the same.

VS: Yes
Swamiji... When it is Soham... Does it mean it's not Bhakti anymore.

SS: No. Love is complete only in union with the beloved.  Soham is the feeling of oneness with the Lord. Ramakrishna was worshipping mother kali and offering flowers to her and when his surrender was complete he realises oneness with her and started offering flowers on his own head

VS: So is it possible that mahatmas in dvaita also experience this oneness but don't intellectually accept it as Soham?

SS: I have no idea about it.

VS: Ok
From the above example of Sri Ramakrishna, Should one consciously contemplate on Soham... Or does one reach that feeling automatically.

SS: In bhakti marga it Will happen automatically when surrender happens completely.

VS: Thanks Swamiji