Upadedsh Saar : Verse 4 (Day 4)

SS: Ramkumarji:

1. in the Pooja that we do, the shlokas and mantras are sattvik mantras. The steps, actions etc are sattvik and so there is no counter result of it if one makes mistakes. If one knowingly makes mistakes due to tamas then it becomes tamasic. Example knowingly chanting a vedic mantra without intonation or not offering what is required due to laziness etc. Even here, no counter result. Just that the purity that the mind could have achieved is lesser.
2. Also, when we ask for forgiveness at the end of the pooja for errors, it must be done sincerely so that we are protected from our own ego of having done pooja and a certain sense of self-righteousness that can creep in.
3. Where we know that we lack knowledge, we must gain the proper knowledge. Knowingly continuing ignorance is tamasic.
4. In specific rituals done for a specific result like wanting a progeny or wealth or health etc the steps have to be followed strictly because the desires result wont come without that. Just like if i want water then hydrogen 2 molecules and oxygen 1 molecule has to be mixed. No compromise there. Such karmas are called sakaama karma. Nachiketa's father was compromising in kathopanishad. No negative karma but no desired result too.
5. Harmful effects happen when we use tamasic mantras and rajasik mantras to hurt someone. Example black magic.
6. It is important to follow steps in Pooja because it helps one to discipline the mind, become selfless etc. But incase for some unavoidable reasons one cant follow it or makes a mistake, the Lord does not punish nor karma will beget negative karmaphala. Devotion is most important in the pooja and it can fulfil all lapses. Thats why the Lord says in geeta chapter 9 - whoever offers me a leaf, a flower, a fruit or even a drop of water with devotion, i partake of the devotion and bless the person.

VS: Swamiji is there adverse impact of shortening or skipping a pooja. I

SS: Skipping a pooja which is one's nitya karma or daily duty gives pratyavaaya dosha means error of omission and hence one has to do prayaschitta for it along with next pooja. Its like exercising everyday is necessary. Not doing it makes the health suffer and later one pays the price heavily. Shortening the pooja has no adverse effects. But it should not be done as a habit

VS: What is the prayaschitta
Extra pooja nxt day

SS: Yes
Prayaschitta literally means repentence
And atonement for errors

VS: Thanks Swamiji

NG: Pooja everyday, japa everyday, study everyday, exercise everyday AND all other daily activities everyday...am exhausted thinking about it😳

VS: And the word Nityakarma has only remained a definition. It was so easy until we were students or single(dont take it the other way)

SS: You can alternately do pooja/japa/meditation. Spend only 20min doing any one practice. 20min doing exercise 5 times a week. 20min study. This is the T20 formula for stress-free life.

NG: Yes Swamiji. That sounds really do-able 😃.

VS: Thanks a lot Swamiji...for the T20 formula. I'll need to talk to you sometime regarding 20 plus.

SS: Practice of the week: T20 formula. 20min spiritual practice. 20min exercise. 20min spiritual study. Lets attempt this and grow holistically.

VS: Swamiji can we include one of the 20 for our discussion
Sunitha please don't throw out lazy members

SS: Are you studying the commentary of the verses we are discussing? If yes and you are reflecting on it, then alone it is counted. Only discussion on this is not counted

VS: Yes
N I will continue

RP: Thanks a lot Swamiji! For patiently explaining every point.,
 

Upadesh Saar : Verse 4 (Day 3)

VS: Swamiji based on yesterday's Alphabet Safari does it mean Ravana did not dedicate himself to Shiva properly.

GP: One more point on Pooja : many of the Pooja vidhis are pointers to great vedantic truths eg. the aarti in the dark garbh-griha of a temple.

VS: Yes GP bhaiya.  Wonderful point
All vidhis, poojas, homas etc have scientific as well as vedantic logic.

GP: But there is a danger in trying to find scientific logic in Pooja vidhis. Sometimes the explanations tend to get absurd and actually have no scientific basis, thus turning off some people even more.

VS: This is similar to going to a wrong doctor.
Like Swamiji said start in good faith and we'll find our answers automatically

GP: When I do something out of love for someone, then l don't look for a logical reasoning. In fact, more often than not, the things we do are so illogical! But we do it out of love and we don't care about the logic.

VS: That is definitely a very good point
For that my love has to be steadfast na?
If we are not diverting, I remember Jigs n Krishna had attended a seminar (not sure if organised by CIF) in Bangalore years ago and shared a few amazing facts.

SS: Ravana never dedicated himself to Shiva. He prayed for power and he got that. Purity was not enough and ego never sublimated itself so it led to destruction.

VS: Thanks Swamiji.
So here the intention plays an important role

‎KG: Swamiji, to start with asking for worldly things as sankalpa during Pooja, is it always harming? I always felt asking the lord is better than begging in the world. Is there then the 3 types in Pooja too... sattvik, rajasic & tamasic. Also is Sankalpa always necessary, can't just doing it for luv 2 the Ishta not complete.

VS: In Sankalpa we can ask what we want or modify... like one I remember...asking pure and steadfast bhakti for the Lord
I know it's selfish n materialistic but feel begging to Lord is better than begging to the world.

SS: There is nothing wrong in asking worldly things from the Lord. Its like child asking the parent. Such a devotee is called artharthi in geeta chapter 7. What we do with what we have asked is important.

‎KG: Ok

VS: Thanks Swamiji... what we do with it is important

SS: Yes pooja is also of 3 types. When done with selflessness, only for expressing love or to cultivate noble virtues it is sattvik. When one asks materialistic things or freedom from suffering it is rajasik. When done to harm others or done without proper method or out of unwillingness it is tamasic

VS: So our aim should be to rise up in these levels

SS: Sankalpa means a strong resolve. It does not mean only asking something. Its also to know our connection with the universe(ancient GPS) because one's geographical location, tithi, paksha, maasa, ritu etc are taken into consideration and on one hand one's insignificance and humility it invokes and on the other helps one with vision of oneness. Also it is to make our action conscious and not mechanical. Whats the objective must be clear to us and we remain focussed on it.

RP: Swamiji how much to worry about mistakes and errors while doing pujas - because we have very limited knowledge about mantras or steps and procedures.., like you mentioned will it be taken as tamasic ? Will there be Counter effects ?

Upadesh Saar : Verse 4 (Day 2)

Su: Hari Om, GP you are right,  I think I believe pooja is inferior and avoidable with no  consequences.  I don't see it as an imperative step.

I believe it's good for those who enjoy it and are easily able to do it and find happiness /fulfillment etc.  The rest can make do without it..

Of course Iam wrong I know that,  I will have to take effort to teach my mind otherwise. 

But it's also true that whenever I sit to do pooja (the few times that I have) there are no emotions I feel to embarrass myself.  It's mechanical. May be because of the above belief.  I think why should I do these rituals when the bond between me and Lord is inside me... and not dependent on these actions. Of course that may be an excuse my mind is giving.. and sounding intelligent about it.  But the fact is I don't like doing pooja.

When Iam doing my Japa alone or just sitting in the temple by myself with Jagadeeshwara in front of me,  that's when I experience strong emotions.  So in that case 1) is a pooja done so mechanically just for the sake of doing it of any use.. I think no.  2) is there a way for people like me to develop a sense of emotional involvement when doing a act the intellect is not convinced about. 3) sorry but asking again,  is pooja/rituals an essential unavoidable step towards development of Bhakti.

 

RP: Gurudev's quote - Knowledge without devotion is tasteless. Devotion without knowledge is mere empty idol worship.

I think acceptance if rituals come more easily if we know or appreciate the reason behind it. When I started in the mission I used to question why is everyone falling at the feet of Gurudev. Many teenagers ask why go to temple or why do namaskar etc.

I once asked one of our Swamijis if we should force children to follow simple rituals or let them understand for themselves- he replied we should not give up and encourage them to follow and gave example of Gurudev himself - you would recall Gurudev telling about his childhood days when the evening puja was a must in his house and how later he would develop the relationship with The Lord. Hope you remember.

 

AV: It is also a step towards the BMI integration, I feel. If my intellect can accede to a higher ideal, I should be able to bring my body and heart to it as well..... Only then will it be complete.

 

VS: If you are able to feel the Lord within yourself all the time its a higher state and is called Manasa pooja. Whenever or not we do pooja to a vigraha, we just imagine we are doing the same to the baby Krishna or Baby Shiva in our heart and then the connection is completed. when Saint Thyagaraja was praying to Lord Rama's Vigraham he was actually imagining praying to the living Rama in His heart.

 

‎KG: I remember Tapovanji Maharaj's writing - He says yatra/pilgrim is the lowest form of upasana... Still if we read his books, his earlier life was full of yatras. Twice kailas on foot.

Many times Pooja could be good for starters and especially like ramkumar ji's mention about helping next generation build a bond with lord in some form.

"Once a sadhak establishes in a higher step, he/she may not want 2 indulge in lower steps of sadhana" - this is general understanding :) But when we watch the routine of swami and swaminis around, u get 2 see their daily sadhana includes a good amount of ritualistic Pooja. I once heard about Swami Subodhanandji, elaborate regular Pooja must in his daily sadhana. Wonder then should we not entertain our body and mind in Pooja. Specifically towards choosen Ishta.

 

VS: Nice one Krishna

 

SS: It is definitely possible to connect to the Lord without Pooja. But lets understand what is the significance of a pooja for a vedantic student:

1. Senses are extrovert and fickle. To withdraw the mind from the senses and focus on japa etc is not easy. We need to master the senses for it. Pooja provides an opportunity to engage the senses and also divinise them. We see HIS form, chant HIS name, offer flowers, naivedya to HIM, Listen to HIS glories etc. Walking to the temple, cleaning it, preparing it etc also train the senses and the mind.
2. most of us complain that our mind wanders in japa or meditation. A person who has done pooja learns concentration, visualisation because one constantly keeps one form in the mind and does the offerings. For children especially its very effective.
3. Integration also happens because BMI come together.
4. Develops a relationship with the Lord and channelise emotions through it. Hanuman looked upon Ram as the Lord. Ramakrishna as a mother. Meera as a beloved. Surdas as a friend. Whats my relationship with HIM i should find out and invoke love. When there is love we want to give. Pooja is giving what HE likes. Hence we say offer bilva, abhisheka, bhasma to shiva. Offer alankaar and lotus to vishnu. Offer kumkum to devi etc. Ofcourse it has symbolism too.
5. From physical pooja to maanas pooja to japa to meditation. This is the order of progress. Try it and you will see the difference.
6. Pooja is not a mechanical ritual. Its an expression of love and gratitude. One may say i can do that without pooja also. Fine. But the asana-siddhi, manah-shuddhi, sukhshma-buddhi and antarmukhi drishti that Pooja brings is unique.
7. Mantras have their own powers and when chanted with meaning it prepares us for contemplation.
8. To do a Pooja one has to live life in discipline and self-control. One cannot be indulgent and immoral and benefit from Pooja. It applies to all the spiritual practices. But rules for Pooja are simpler than for japa and meditation etc.
9. Pooja has 16 steps. Each of them invoke a bhaav. Eg. archana reminds me to offer my vasanas, aarti- to surrender totally, pradakshina - to let HIM be the centre of my life and let life revolve around Dharma etc. Will that happen if i just sit in front of the Lord? Mind needs activity  and dynamism.
10. Even if i dont know the meaning but if i do the pooja it will make me think- who is the Lord? Why should i worship? How? Etc. That itself is progress. Devotion arises.
11. Whole day i think about myself. Pooja is a time to ask what does HE like? What can i offer HIM?
12. I become more open to God's Grace
13. Sattvik actions help us to earn punya and punya brings satsang in our life. Pooja is one of the most sattvik actions whether done knowingly or unknowingly.
14. When devotion grows then only one goes beyond steps and becomes spontaneous. Without following the steps of Pooja, how can i be spontaneous? This applies in arts, science, martial arts, sports etc.
15. Pooja of a form is only a beginning. Slowly the same bhaav extends to all actions and whole world becomes our altar of worship.
    Its not the Pooja thats the problem actually. Its our lack of faith in the form, in pooja's effectiveness, our incapacity to submit ourselves to discipline and our belief that as an intellectual im not the -'Pooja-type'.
16. To cultivate the head is easy but to nurture the heart is tough. Pooja is an opportunity to put aside intellectual skepticism and tamas. Its actively invoking devotion and cultivating the heart. Questions like- does God want my offerings? Why waste money and resources in Pooja? Etc show human contradictions. Do we ask these questions when we waste so lavishly on branded products, elaborate parties, big-fat indian weddings or even as simple as the food we waste in our plates? Im not justifying. Milk offered in abhisheka can be collected and given to the needy but to call it sheer waste and not to do it in the name of intellectualism is not appropriate.

Swami Tapovanam used to visit soumya kasheesha temple everyday in uttarkashi. Guruji does Ram Pooja everyday and distributes prasad of his altar in the afternoon at His kutia. Meera, bharat, tulsidas, alwars of the south who are devotees of Vishnu, nayanmars who are devotees of shiva....all used pooja every effectively

 

JV: Devotion is so natural as you get closer and closer to the knowledge.

All the stotras, hyms, praises follow spontaneously.

 

VS: Swamiji what a wonderful explanation...

Thank you sooo much

 

RP: Superb and Detailed step by step explanation Swamiji!

So Sunitha is now inviting all of us to her place for Satyanarayan puja this Saturday! Good decision Sunitha !

 

Su: Superb Swamiji!!  Thanks a ton!!  Lot of food for thought.  And I like what you said... easy to cultivate the head tough to nurture the heart..... so true. It's difficult.

And Ramkumar... give me some time... I may just do that!!

 

SR: Thank you swamiji. Your explanation was so comprehensive. It gave me clarity  in my understanding. As well as in explaining the significance of pooja to others specially the children.

 

VS: Alphabet Safari A to Q of Pooja

 

SS: R to Z can also be filled up if required

Upadesh Saar : Verse 3 (Day 4), Verse 4 (Day 1)

SS: How do we develop bhakti?
‎KG: By listening to the glories of the lord.
VS: Swamiji... As you told to Neelima yesterday, Bhakti has to be nurtured.  By reading more about the Lord and His Glories I will be able to intellectually appreciate and emotionally connect to Him. Then I think about his glories during during the day. Then i think, , discuss or share it as a story or as bhajans. I like it so much that I dedicate some time to think or tp meditate on his forms or glories.
NG: By satsang
Su: I think there should be an intellectual angle to it, where i know the nature of the object of my Bhakti.  Unless I know the Lord,  who He is,  what is His nature etc.  The question of loving or respecting Him does not arise ( for me atleast)
So I think before satsangh and listening to His glories etc,  I need to have knowledge of Him.  So I guess that's the first step..
I think most people fear God...  because of their concept of the Lord . To graduate from God fearing to God loving,  we need a change in perspective
SS: Satsang is the best way to gain knowledge. Ram tells shabari about 9 steps in devotion. First step he says is satsang. Prathama bhagati santan kar sangaa.
Su: Got your point....
I guess doing pooja and other related rituals help in developing/nurturing Bhakti
SS: Verse 4: kaaya-vaang-manah kaaryam-uttamam.
Poojanam-japah-chintanam kramaat.
The actions done by the body i.e pooja, by the speech  i.e japa, by the mind i.e contemplation are serially superior to the previous one.
DM: Oh.. I have been doing puja swamiji for years without this understanding. .
I wouldn't stop for fear of the paap of stopping not because I believed. . There r times wen I would feel extremely peaceful or  tears would roll down n I would wonder y.. now I understand that was wen I United with Lord.. bhakti was flowing endlessly within n flowing out as tears..
When we say japa is it sitting in one place n chanting one name?
SS: Yes. We will see more about it once we finish discussing about pooja
DM: Ok swamiji
Su: I must confess I feel uncomfortable when doing any ritual like pooja, kirtan etc... I find it extremely difficult and awkward.  Is it wrong... because I feel like Iam committing a mistake by thinking like this.  But can't shake the discomfort
So my questions is can pooja/rituals  be avoided.
SS: What causes the discomfort has to be found out and addresses instead of avoiding
‎KG: Pooja like say Guru-paduka, is very involving not just 4 body but also mind. I think it's more of a concentration exercise where the radius of concentration is larger than other means.
Pooja confines ones body to follow a discipline or actions keeping all sense organs active and focussing on pleasing the Ishta.
NP: When we do Pooja to please Ishta aren't we having expectations? Instead out of love without expectations, knowing The Lord knows what's best for me attitude would reduce vasanas
Also is it Sunita that we are uncomfortable doing Pooja because surrender is not complete. Our intellect is not convinced?
Su: I have thinking seriously abt the cause of the discomfort  ....still thinking
VS: Swamiji we say khaate bhi Ram kaho Peete bhi Ram kaho. is it wrong to invoke the Lord when we are stressed out.
SS: No
GP: Sunitha, sometimes we are embarrassed about expressing our emotions. Sometimes we think it's inferior to study and contemplation and japa and meditation.

Upadesh Saar : Verse 3 (Day 3)

VS: Amazing discussion... I always miss the exact time of discussion. Thank you so much everyone
But remembered what Krishna said So for vedantin every moment is an opportunity in itself! Thx Ramkumarji :)
#6 is what I always find difficult... May be the surrender is still not complete
I prayed hard during work... and surrendered... but was not calm.
Also maybe because of point 4. Self Importance
SS: Dheere dheere re mana
Dheere sab kuch hoy
Maali seenche sau ghadaa
Ritu aaye fal hoy. - Kabir
O Mind! Everything happens slowly. Gardner may pour 100 pots of water but fruit comes only in the right season.
Gurudev used to always say that evolution is slow. Flower takes time to blossom.
VS: True Swamiji... its so ironical that patience is the key achieve this Goal. We need to be patient for the evolution to happen. Yet we need to be fast.
Tension of action
Su: That is really good Swamiji...
In the world of super speed we have started expecting immediate gratification in spirituality also.....
VS: Dheere Dheere re mana
Relax... oh mind
Soo true...
100 ghada... Is understatement
Anyway... have I even finished 50 is the question! !
SS: Point is not to put 100 pots of water. It is to slow down. 100 pots are not required and not going to speed up the process of getting fruits.
VS: But in our case we have to continue non stop right
But I understand that slowing down is in the attitude right Swamiji?
Su: I guess here it's not about slowing down,  it's about understanding that everything happens in it's own time following the natural laws of nature etc.  We need to understand that and adapt an attitude to accomodate that.
VS: Yes Sunitha... thanks
SS: Ramana Maharshi was a master of Brevity. In first three verses he has summarised the entire theory of karma, karma-bandhana and karma-yoga.
Anything to discuss more on it, we can. Else we move ahead
Su: Let's move ahead Swamiji
GP: Let's move ahead swamiji
VS: Yes Swamiji
SS: What is bhakti? Why bhakti?
Su: Emotion of love
For the Lord
Unless we love the Lord can't dedicate our actions and surrender
GP: Bhakti is faith. And faith can be invoked only in something that is higher. Something or someone that I deeply admire, respect and love.
It is implicit trust that I will be taken care of. I feel safe and secure in my bhakti.
Can I not have bhakti towards the scriptures, guru, etc?
VS: Bhakthi is expression of love  to my highest ideal... God or Guru who shows me the right path in life. I perform everything to God likes or I think He likes.  Constant thinking of Him.
This ideal is my best friend and loves me as I am. When I look at Him... He is perfect and that instills my respect for him.
Bhakthi can be for anything... our culture treats everything as God meaning everything should be respected.  Books, money,  vehicles, machines, people etc.
But what we should respect what we respect actually is different
GP: Is bhakti love? Or is it respect?
NP: Bhakti means devotion. Devotion to an ideal. When all our thoughts are directed to the ideal, there is an integration of BMI. There is harmony and thereby lesser vasanas generated.
GP: What is this devotion? How is it different from a person's devotion to his parents, family, profession, etc?
What does devotion mean actually?
VS: Devotion is love for the highest ideal.
SR: Bhakti is an emotional connect to the highest ideal. It includes love, devotion, faith & surrender
NP: The soldier has devotion to the nation. In war inspite of being injured the soldier doesn't care for his body but fights on for the sake of his country. If the mind is inspired the body will never matter.
Whereas if we have a small fever we won't go to office forget if we break our leg😉

SR: In a broad sense bhakti includes Guru, country etc
NP: I think Bhakti is devotion for something or someone inspiring. There is no doubt in our mind about the ideal. Also the higher the ideal more selfless will be the action and lesser ego
RP: We have read the sneha prema Bhakti sequence. Bhakti means the object of our love is considered great and we lovingly and proudly respect and accept the greatness.
Note that every powerful or great person does not become object of our devotion. There is something else that clicks
Probably the sense of belonging and personal connect with the full understanding of the greatness of the person or object
NP: Maybe that someone is what u want to be .
VS: Yes
Su: So all of us agree that love directed towards the higher is Bhakti...?
RP: Right. But there are other aspects if total love too - yashoda's love for child Krishna
Su: When we feel that emotion towards our equal it's love... towards the higher it's called devotion
I in yashoda's case it was love... not Bhakti
VS: The logic of equal.
RP: How about Radhas love then ?
VS: Logic of equal is not clear
Su: By equal I meant everyone/everything other than the Lord or some higher ideal like country etc
Radha... not sure
Love +  devotion?
VS: Expressions can be different
Love, friendship
Servant
Su: Question was what is Bhakti and why Bhakti?  I guess we will come to expression later
VS: Ok
NP: Bhakti is respect cum love
NG: Bhakti is what Hanuman had for Lord Ram
VS: Ans for what is clear
Why?
I mean we hv shared our views
SS: Bhakti is loving an ideal more than myself. It invokes surrender and self-forgetfulness. this can happen for the country, scriptures, guru, parents etc. Hence desh-bhakti or guru-bhakti or shastra-bhakti, matru-pitru bhakti etc. When it happens for the Supreme or the Highest then it is Ishwar-Bhakti.
Love, respect, security, faith are parts of this highest emotion.
VS: So does it mean that love, , respect or faith for anything other than God is also Bhakti
SS: Think about it based on what i just sent and you will find your answer there
GP: So now the question is, why do we need this bhakti?
SS: Actually the Lord alone is the one to whom one can surrender fully. Hence from a technical standpoint bhakti is applicable for the Lord alone. But in life we find many other altars of surrender and so we say its applicable there too
Let's go to -Why bhakti?
GP: Why bhakti? if there is no bhakti, I will not be able to look beyond myself and rise above my petty likes and dislikes. Bhakti helps me become selfless.
RP: Bhakti makes it very easy and provides the enthusiasm and energy to walk the path. Few things that Bhakti brings automatically - faith in The Lord, sense of being supported and cared for etc help a lot in overcoming self doubts and keeps us on the path - a great boon for the initial seeker who otherwise knows very little.
NP: Also I feel bmi integration is easier
VS: We need Bhakti because whenever we worship our Lord we try to imbibe the qualities of the Lord.  This applies also to people whom we love and respect.
We know that ideal can give me complete happiness
NP: Our actions and thoughts are usually selfless if we have Bhakti for a higher ideal
RP: In general we know that emotions are able to conjure up a lot of energy - anger for example. But if you want energy that lasts long for a life time - then intellectual understanding of the ideal + strong love towards it can provide us that. Both are required else the energy fades out. And we just saw both together is Bhakti.
SS: Wonderful. Keep it going
SR: When i am inspired and have selfless love for a higher ideal, my ego & self importance reduces
There is more purity in action
GP: We sometimes have this wrong notion that bhakti is inferior to karma or gyaana. That it is only for the beginner or the weak and emotional seeker. But this is completely wrong.
NP: Then like what Ramkumar said, even if we have can't understand certain things Bhakti will sail us through till we are ready to understand
GP: Gurudev was the perfect living example of bhakti. Karma and gyaana in one person.
NP: Yeah!
But is Bhakti permanent or do we have to nurture it regularly?
VS: Yes
SS: Has to be nurtured.
RP: If we say intellectual understanding of ideal + love is Bhakti. Then by the equation when understanding goes up Bhakti goes up. That results in more love and when you love more you want to know more. it is a self feeding infinite cycle. It is not that Bhakti is constant in the equation and when you get more knowledge you have to reduce love. We know that's not true for sure.
SR: 'Pure' bhakti elevates the mind. Gyana, the intellect. Both ways ultimately takes us to the same goal...yes, it has to be consistently & sincerely practiced
‎KG: I thimk reapect follows love and so bhakti has strong aspect of respect too. To attempt Karma yoga specifically #2, 3, 5, 8, 10 from Swamiji's list, very essential. For Surrender need Bhakti and Bhakti will materialise in Surrender.
1.Perform your obligatory duties diligently and cheerfully. Niyatam kuru karma tvam.
2.Dedicate the duties to a higher cause / God. Ishwaraarpitam
3.Keep your Vision High.
4.Reduce self – importance & self- projection through teamwork or Yagna-Spirit
5.Love the very work itself.
6. Calm – Before, During and After the action. Samatvam Yoga Uchyate.
7. Don’t insist on particular results only.
8. Accept the results cheerfully as His Prasad with Humility & Equanimity.
9. Don’t attach your worth to work.
10. Know that you are only an instrument and not the doer. Nimmita-maatam bhava.
----
Bhakti is born out of knowledge, since one needs 2 acknowledge of the HIGHER. But did Shabari know of Rama's greatness?
SS: Yes. Her guru matanga rishi had told her
Bhakti is required for shakti, shaanti, virakti(dispassion) and Mukti.
Su: Bhakti is imperative for the The ability to give up doership
If I have to act as the instrument of the Lord... I need to love Him unconditionally
Dilution of ego is easier at the altar of love

Upadesh Saar : Verse 3 (Day 2)

Su: Gurudev's thought for the day:
Withdraw your grace from your mind.  It is the devil (rakshasa) who has, through its tapas,  invoked you and got your blessings - and it is now threatening to annihilate you!  Learn to destroy him quickly - hasten slowly.
‎
JV: Totally agree and it has received so much that it has become bhasmasur of my self and is threatening to burn me to ashes. Mostly I am succumbing to it.

NG: All in the same boat😳
But now we have a good boatman...thank you Swamiji🙏

AV: Yes thank you Swamiji and the group

SS: Beautiful quote sunitha. Kaivartakah keshavaha says Geeta Dhyaan Shloka. Krishna or the Lord is our boatman

VS: Yes Swamiji...

RP: Different topic and sorry for the distraction - ever wondered why is the universe with thousands of planets, stars , galaxies, animals , plants, so many multiple names and forms actually called as UNIverse? (Uni - not two not three not many-verse just UNI)

GP: There is also a theory among scientists (space scientists) about multi-verses
‎
JV: There are no limitations when the limitless is cooking a story :) Ram, there are multi universes  as well

SS: Nothing beats the understanding of vedanta that there is no creation - uni or multi. Why wonder if there is one snake or many snakes? 😜
‎
JV: Totally. 👍
‎
SS: If you had to enumerate 10 principles of Karma Yoga what would they be?

RP: 1. Work is dedicated to an higher ideal
2. Cheerful acceptance of results
3. Less or nil likes and dislikes while performing actions
4. Feeling of gratitude or higher presence propelling the action ( vs I doing all)
5. Focus on doing it right and cheerfully
6. Ideally tallies with swadharma
Umm
10. It is a good thing !!!

GP: 7. Karma is action. Karma yoga is in the attitude behind the action.
10 (addendum) : and it is a difficult thing! 😊
8. The objective behind karma-yoga is not self-improvement but self-purification.

SS: Great

RP: 9. Is followed in thought speech and action - ie integrated fashion

GP: 9. Working hard, doing social service, doing one's duties, being very efficient, achieving great success - none of this is karma yoga, if there is no attitude of surrender to a higher ideal/altar beyond oneself.
Yes, I agree with ram's point 9. Pls ignore my point 9.

RP: I think there can be more than 10. Multiverse!

SS: 1.Perform your obligatory duties diligently and cheerfully. Niyatam kuru karma tvam.
2.Dedicate the duties to a higher cause / God. Ishwaraarpitam
3.Keep your Vision High.
4.Reduce self – importance & self- projection through teamwork or Yagna-Spirit
5.Love the very work itself.
6. Calm – Before, During and After the action. Samatvam Yoga Uchyate.
7. Don’t insist on particular results only.
8. Accept the results cheerfully as His Prasad with Humility & Equanimity.
9. Don’t attach your worth to work.
10. Know that you are only an instrument and not the doer. Nimmita-maatam bhava.
Yes there can be more too

GP: Swamiji added 10 more! 😊

SS: Many are same points. I just tried to fill the missing links and put it in a sequence so that if we try practicing it in this order it would help rather trying to give up doership etc.

Su: The list is graded in difficulty.  Easy to tough
Start from the top....

RP: Mukhta Sangha samaacharan - don't remember the verse exactly - that's also a gem of a verse

SS: Thats the yagna spirit point. Yagnaarthaat karmanonyatra loko ayam karma-bandhanaha. Tadartham karma kaunteya mukta sangah samaachara. Geeta ch.3

Su: As I see it,  BMI integration is needed for karma yoga. Swamiji is it possible that someone is not ready for karma yoga,  hence there is some practice to prepare one for practice of karma yoga.

RP: Perfect Swamiji.

SS: Karma yoga itself will integrate us. Point 1 of doing duties can integrate us. We dont do our duties and engage in distractions or prohibited things. Thats disintegration.

RP: And there is another one on maam anusmara yudhyaca

Su: Right Swamiji,  true doing one's duties diligently itself needs tremendous integrity

SS: Tasmaat sarveshu kaleshu maam anusmara yudhya cha
Mayyarpita mano budhihi
Maam eve eshyasi asamshay
Geeta Chapter 8
Hence at all times remember ME and fight. Mind and intellect dedicated to ME you shall undoubtedly reach ME says the Lord.
Doing what one loves or swadharma can help to integrate. Thats a part of my duty to myself

RP: Oh I was looking in chapter 2 - but I feel there are gems of verses on k-yoga sprinkled across chapters
Or could be that I can only see Geeta as book of k-yoga!

SS: Its Sprinkled everywhere. Karma includes bhakti and gnana too. That way entire geeta is karma yoga

RP: Sukhe Dukhe same kritva labhalabhau jayajaou tato yudhyaya yujyasva naivam paapamsvyspsasi
The naivam papam refers to not accumulating vasanas Swamiji?

SS: Yes.
Work for the sake of work is tato yuddhaaya yujyasva. If we can do that without a trace of dependency on results. Then no new vasanas are created

RP: Thank you Swamiji !
‎
KG: Gr8 point Swamiji. Talking of examples then the japa tapa meditation (trials :)) are all in ways karma only...
#5 Love the work itself.
Do we need the attitude that the work that's come on my plate is his grace, his placing me at that place is good enough reason to accept it and give it a best shot...

RP: Yes Krishna - the work coming on your plate is not by chance. Remember when you act in karma yoga no NEW vasanas are created. How about existing ones? That's where performing your duties in the circumstances you are placed in ( results of past karma) help in removing existing vasanas.
The 1st stanza - results come by his grace - this is the grace - opportunity for us to act right and exhaust our current vasanas. We don't know our vasanas but he does - so provides you with the right opportunity to purge them- provided we act with the right spirit. Instead we assume more doership and more vasanas.

NP: Wow!!! Love this class. Thanks thanks thanks 🙏
‎
KG: So for vedantin every moment is an opportunity in itself! Thx Ramkumarji :)

Upadesh Saar : Verse 2 (Day 3) & Verse 3 (Day 1)

Su: Gurudev's thought for the day:
All the Shastras and Scriptures unanimously declare that our enemy is the Ego.  The sorrows and sighs belong to the ego-phantom. Sublimate the ego in constant Vichar.
Turn your gaze towards the Light within. If you cannot all of a sudden do so, then do the easier act of self-surrender. The taller you stand, the longer shall be your shadow. Bend double, the shadow is half. Sit down, the shadow is still smaller. Fall flat at His Lotus Feet, in love and surrender, and the shadow is no more.
Detach the mind from memories and hopes. Desireless is the state of perfection. Egolessness is the state of Godhood. Attain that Supreme Goal of life through knowledge and right living. Detach yourself from this shadow. Know thy Real Self. Kill the tyrant within you. It will bring Ramarajya in your bosoms.

SS: If actions slow down our evolution by binding us and yet we cant give up action, then whats the solution?

NG: Try keep finding a higher purpose for all actions that we are required to perform in the situation we are in.

SS: When does karma become karma yoga?

SR: Do the actions as selflessly as possible, with a seva bhaav, surrendering to the lord

SS: If i dont surrender to the Lord is it still karma yoga?

SR: No. Then i would be engaging in selfish, ego centric actions

NG: It can be if we are able to keep doing the actions needed in a sincere manner without getting swayed by our likes and dislikes
Surrender will be an easier route but may not work for all

GP: Even if I don't surrender to the lord, but if I can surrender the actions to higher ideal or a higher altar, beyond our own selves, then isn't that too karma yoga?

Su: Surrendering doership is tough right now,  but becoming more selfless where I don't always think of myself in relation to the results. Where Iam able to dilute my likes and dislikes.... isn't that also practicing karma yoga?

RP: In the cycle described yesterday - impressions-desires - thoughts - action - result- impression. The most easy to break appears to be action-result-impression part as all others are very subtle
Of the action-result-impression part, result is not under our control. Only action is
Can we do action such that we kind of ignore the result + impression part? Guess that's where karm yoga will come. Working without expectation if result

SR: Surrendering to a higher altar makes our actions less selfish no doubt. But surrendering to the highest purifies our mind, helps in karmaphalatyaga , & takes us that much along the spiritual path

RP: So focus is on performing the action and not press on result. This is easier when the desire-thought preceding the action is for an higher ideal.
So performing actions with ready and full acceptance of whatever the result is weakens the pressure of the enjoyer of the fruit of action.
Reduces impressions, consequently desires and thoughts and finally resulting in less pressure to act in the first place.

SS: Surrender to a Higher alter can purify the intentions and reduce doership but doership goes only when surrender is to the Lord. Thats when karma yoga is complete. Thats why the definition of karma says karma = action with BMI + intention + doership.
Will continue more tomorrow. You may please carry on

VS: Selfish actions and actions with strong doership feeling(pride of doing the action) will slow down my evolution.
I need to maintain a feeling that the actions as well as the results are also due to His power.
A constant reminder that He is acting through me.
Can we term successful completion of an action also as results? because that also creates anxiety and gives happiness or sorrow.
‎
KG: why to surrender is ok. But How to surrender is still a Q?

SS: Successful completion of an action is not anxiety for result. It is the tension of action
How to surrender? I must know my insignificance and the glory of the Lord and if i have love for the Lord, surrender happens. This is where understanding of ishwara and connecting to ishwara through a form is vital.

VS: So surrender to the Lord can help us overcome this anxiety also right
Because it does reduce

SS: Yes
Verse no.3 - ishwaraarpitam nechaya kritam. Chittashodhakam mukti-saadhakam.
Actions done as an offering to the Lord and not for self-importance purify the mind and are a means to liberation.
Karma = action.
Karma yoga = dedicated action.
What is NOT Karma-Yoga:
1. Merely doing one's duties
2. Mere efficiency in action
3. Mere social service
4. Working for long hours.

RP: One would have thought performing duties and social service qualifies as karma yoga.
But merely the action without the dedication does not make it a karma yoga is the key
However noble and even self less the action could be
The dedication and attitude of surrender is to be done in the mind. So if action is like a washing machine that could clean the mind (Chitta shodhakam) then the attitude of surrender is the soap. Without that the machine can run long hours but nothing gets cleaned, instead it gets more dirty.

SS: Nice analogy

NP: Wow!

NG: Nice one Ram 👍

Su: Karma yoga always gives the feeling that it's 'action'. But it's totally in the mind.  Very important to remember that.

SS: Yes karma yoga is an attitude not an action. Karma is action

RP: Nicely put Swamiji and makes it clear. Key word is it's attitude towards 'action'. Interesting to note that shying away from action also cannot be yoga. It's not that we can escape the ocean by avoiding to get in there. There is no "dry cleaning" at our levels,  dirt still remains and continues to attract more and only way to get rid of it is to act with the right attitude.

SS: We are already in the ocean. We can choose to sink (drown unaware of higher way) or try to swim (keep acting selfishly) and cross or take a boat(satsang and karma yoga) and go across.
Practice exercise: before and after action feel and say Ishwararpitam and dedicate it to the Lord. Poojya Gurudev used to say Krishnarpanam astu or Narayana Narayana or Krishna Krishna.

RP: Oh man! If I have to do that I have to clean up my actions first. Half the things I do - I cant dare say Ishwararpitam! But definitely a good exercise!

Su: So true Ramkumar!!

SS: Applies to all of us

NP: Hahahaha Ramkumar very true.
‎
KG: True. I have heard some term this practice as' madhu vidya'.... Didn't know remembrance of the Lord frequently will be so difficult to inculcate. Makes me realize acting has become so very unconscious.

VS: Agree ram anna. Thanks for the exercise Swamiji