VS: Amazing discussion... I always miss the exact time of discussion. Thank you so much everyone
But remembered what Krishna said So for vedantin every moment is an opportunity in itself! Thx Ramkumarji :)
#6 is what I always find difficult... May be the surrender is still not complete
I prayed hard during work... and surrendered... but was not calm.
Also maybe because of point 4. Self Importance
SS: Dheere dheere re mana
Dheere sab kuch hoy
Maali seenche sau ghadaa
Ritu aaye fal hoy. - Kabir
O Mind! Everything happens slowly. Gardner may pour 100 pots of water but fruit comes only in the right season.
Gurudev used to always say that evolution is slow. Flower takes time to blossom.
VS: True Swamiji... its so ironical that patience is the key achieve this Goal. We need to be patient for the evolution to happen. Yet we need to be fast.
Tension of action
Su: That is really good Swamiji...
In the world of super speed we have started expecting immediate gratification in spirituality also.....
VS: Dheere Dheere re mana
Relax... oh mind
Soo true...
100 ghada... Is understatement
Anyway... have I even finished 50 is the question! !
SS: Point is not to put 100 pots of water. It is to slow down. 100 pots are not required and not going to speed up the process of getting fruits.
VS: But in our case we have to continue non stop right
But I understand that slowing down is in the attitude right Swamiji?
Su: I guess here it's not about slowing down, it's about understanding that everything happens in it's own time following the natural laws of nature etc. We need to understand that and adapt an attitude to accomodate that.
VS: Yes Sunitha... thanks
SS: Ramana Maharshi was a master of Brevity. In first three verses he has summarised the entire theory of karma, karma-bandhana and karma-yoga.
Anything to discuss more on it, we can. Else we move ahead
Su: Let's move ahead Swamiji
GP: Let's move ahead swamiji
VS: Yes Swamiji
SS: What is bhakti? Why bhakti?
Su: Emotion of love
For the Lord
Unless we love the Lord can't dedicate our actions and surrender
GP: Bhakti is faith. And faith can be invoked only in something that is higher. Something or someone that I deeply admire, respect and love.
It is implicit trust that I will be taken care of. I feel safe and secure in my bhakti.
Can I not have bhakti towards the scriptures, guru, etc?
VS: Bhakthi is expression of love to my highest ideal... God or Guru who shows me the right path in life. I perform everything to God likes or I think He likes. Constant thinking of Him.
This ideal is my best friend and loves me as I am. When I look at Him... He is perfect and that instills my respect for him.
Bhakthi can be for anything... our culture treats everything as God meaning everything should be respected. Books, money, vehicles, machines, people etc.
But what we should respect what we respect actually is different
GP: Is bhakti love? Or is it respect?
NP: Bhakti means devotion. Devotion to an ideal. When all our thoughts are directed to the ideal, there is an integration of BMI. There is harmony and thereby lesser vasanas generated.
GP: What is this devotion? How is it different from a person's devotion to his parents, family, profession, etc?
What does devotion mean actually?
VS: Devotion is love for the highest ideal.
SR: Bhakti is an emotional connect to the highest ideal. It includes love, devotion, faith & surrender
NP: The soldier has devotion to the nation. In war inspite of being injured the soldier doesn't care for his body but fights on for the sake of his country. If the mind is inspired the body will never matter.
Whereas if we have a small fever we won't go to office forget if we break our leg😉
SR: In a broad sense bhakti includes Guru, country etc
NP: I think Bhakti is devotion for something or someone inspiring. There is no doubt in our mind about the ideal. Also the higher the ideal more selfless will be the action and lesser ego
RP: We have read the sneha prema Bhakti sequence. Bhakti means the object of our love is considered great and we lovingly and proudly respect and accept the greatness.
Note that every powerful or great person does not become object of our devotion. There is something else that clicks
Probably the sense of belonging and personal connect with the full understanding of the greatness of the person or object
NP: Maybe that someone is what u want to be .
VS: Yes
Su: So all of us agree that love directed towards the higher is Bhakti...?
RP: Right. But there are other aspects if total love too - yashoda's love for child Krishna
Su: When we feel that emotion towards our equal it's love... towards the higher it's called devotion
I in yashoda's case it was love... not Bhakti
VS: The logic of equal.
RP: How about Radhas love then ?
VS: Logic of equal is not clear
Su: By equal I meant everyone/everything other than the Lord or some higher ideal like country etc
Radha... not sure
Love + devotion?
VS: Expressions can be different
Love, friendship
Servant
Su: Question was what is Bhakti and why Bhakti? I guess we will come to expression later
VS: Ok
NP: Bhakti is respect cum love
NG: Bhakti is what Hanuman had for Lord Ram
VS: Ans for what is clear
Why?
I mean we hv shared our views
SS: Bhakti is loving an ideal more than myself. It invokes surrender and self-forgetfulness. this can happen for the country, scriptures, guru, parents etc. Hence desh-bhakti or guru-bhakti or shastra-bhakti, matru-pitru bhakti etc. When it happens for the Supreme or the Highest then it is Ishwar-Bhakti.
Love, respect, security, faith are parts of this highest emotion.
VS: So does it mean that love, , respect or faith for anything other than God is also Bhakti
SS: Think about it based on what i just sent and you will find your answer there
GP: So now the question is, why do we need this bhakti?
SS: Actually the Lord alone is the one to whom one can surrender fully. Hence from a technical standpoint bhakti is applicable for the Lord alone. But in life we find many other altars of surrender and so we say its applicable there too
Let's go to -Why bhakti?
GP: Why bhakti? if there is no bhakti, I will not be able to look beyond myself and rise above my petty likes and dislikes. Bhakti helps me become selfless.
RP: Bhakti makes it very easy and provides the enthusiasm and energy to walk the path. Few things that Bhakti brings automatically - faith in The Lord, sense of being supported and cared for etc help a lot in overcoming self doubts and keeps us on the path - a great boon for the initial seeker who otherwise knows very little.
NP: Also I feel bmi integration is easier
VS: We need Bhakti because whenever we worship our Lord we try to imbibe the qualities of the Lord. This applies also to people whom we love and respect.
We know that ideal can give me complete happiness
NP: Our actions and thoughts are usually selfless if we have Bhakti for a higher ideal
RP: In general we know that emotions are able to conjure up a lot of energy - anger for example. But if you want energy that lasts long for a life time - then intellectual understanding of the ideal + strong love towards it can provide us that. Both are required else the energy fades out. And we just saw both together is Bhakti.
SS: Wonderful. Keep it going
SR: When i am inspired and have selfless love for a higher ideal, my ego & self importance reduces
There is more purity in action
GP: We sometimes have this wrong notion that bhakti is inferior to karma or gyaana. That it is only for the beginner or the weak and emotional seeker. But this is completely wrong.
NP: Then like what Ramkumar said, even if we have can't understand certain things Bhakti will sail us through till we are ready to understand
GP: Gurudev was the perfect living example of bhakti. Karma and gyaana in one person.
NP: Yeah!
But is Bhakti permanent or do we have to nurture it regularly?
VS: Yes
SS: Has to be nurtured.
RP: If we say intellectual understanding of ideal + love is Bhakti. Then by the equation when understanding goes up Bhakti goes up. That results in more love and when you love more you want to know more. it is a self feeding infinite cycle. It is not that Bhakti is constant in the equation and when you get more knowledge you have to reduce love. We know that's not true for sure.
SR: 'Pure' bhakti elevates the mind. Gyana, the intellect. Both ways ultimately takes us to the same goal...yes, it has to be consistently & sincerely practiced
KG: I thimk reapect follows love and so bhakti has strong aspect of respect too. To attempt Karma yoga specifically #2, 3, 5, 8, 10 from Swamiji's list, very essential. For Surrender need Bhakti and Bhakti will materialise in Surrender.
1.Perform your obligatory duties diligently and cheerfully. Niyatam kuru karma tvam.
2.Dedicate the duties to a higher cause / God. Ishwaraarpitam
3.Keep your Vision High.
4.Reduce self – importance & self- projection through teamwork or Yagna-Spirit
5.Love the very work itself.
6. Calm – Before, During and After the action. Samatvam Yoga Uchyate.
7. Don’t insist on particular results only.
8. Accept the results cheerfully as His Prasad with Humility & Equanimity.
9. Don’t attach your worth to work.
10. Know that you are only an instrument and not the doer. Nimmita-maatam bhava.
----
Bhakti is born out of knowledge, since one needs 2 acknowledge of the HIGHER. But did Shabari know of Rama's greatness?
SS: Yes. Her guru matanga rishi had told her
Bhakti is required for shakti, shaanti, virakti(dispassion) and Mukti.
Su: Bhakti is imperative for the The ability to give up doership
If I have to act as the instrument of the Lord... I need to love Him unconditionally
Dilution of ego is easier at the altar of love
But remembered what Krishna said So for vedantin every moment is an opportunity in itself! Thx Ramkumarji :)
#6 is what I always find difficult... May be the surrender is still not complete
I prayed hard during work... and surrendered... but was not calm.
Also maybe because of point 4. Self Importance
SS: Dheere dheere re mana
Dheere sab kuch hoy
Maali seenche sau ghadaa
Ritu aaye fal hoy. - Kabir
O Mind! Everything happens slowly. Gardner may pour 100 pots of water but fruit comes only in the right season.
Gurudev used to always say that evolution is slow. Flower takes time to blossom.
VS: True Swamiji... its so ironical that patience is the key achieve this Goal. We need to be patient for the evolution to happen. Yet we need to be fast.
Tension of action
Su: That is really good Swamiji...
In the world of super speed we have started expecting immediate gratification in spirituality also.....
VS: Dheere Dheere re mana
Relax... oh mind
Soo true...
100 ghada... Is understatement
Anyway... have I even finished 50 is the question! !
SS: Point is not to put 100 pots of water. It is to slow down. 100 pots are not required and not going to speed up the process of getting fruits.
VS: But in our case we have to continue non stop right
But I understand that slowing down is in the attitude right Swamiji?
Su: I guess here it's not about slowing down, it's about understanding that everything happens in it's own time following the natural laws of nature etc. We need to understand that and adapt an attitude to accomodate that.
VS: Yes Sunitha... thanks
SS: Ramana Maharshi was a master of Brevity. In first three verses he has summarised the entire theory of karma, karma-bandhana and karma-yoga.
Anything to discuss more on it, we can. Else we move ahead
Su: Let's move ahead Swamiji
GP: Let's move ahead swamiji
VS: Yes Swamiji
SS: What is bhakti? Why bhakti?
Su: Emotion of love
For the Lord
Unless we love the Lord can't dedicate our actions and surrender
GP: Bhakti is faith. And faith can be invoked only in something that is higher. Something or someone that I deeply admire, respect and love.
It is implicit trust that I will be taken care of. I feel safe and secure in my bhakti.
Can I not have bhakti towards the scriptures, guru, etc?
VS: Bhakthi is expression of love to my highest ideal... God or Guru who shows me the right path in life. I perform everything to God likes or I think He likes. Constant thinking of Him.
This ideal is my best friend and loves me as I am. When I look at Him... He is perfect and that instills my respect for him.
Bhakthi can be for anything... our culture treats everything as God meaning everything should be respected. Books, money, vehicles, machines, people etc.
But what we should respect what we respect actually is different
GP: Is bhakti love? Or is it respect?
NP: Bhakti means devotion. Devotion to an ideal. When all our thoughts are directed to the ideal, there is an integration of BMI. There is harmony and thereby lesser vasanas generated.
GP: What is this devotion? How is it different from a person's devotion to his parents, family, profession, etc?
What does devotion mean actually?
VS: Devotion is love for the highest ideal.
SR: Bhakti is an emotional connect to the highest ideal. It includes love, devotion, faith & surrender
NP: The soldier has devotion to the nation. In war inspite of being injured the soldier doesn't care for his body but fights on for the sake of his country. If the mind is inspired the body will never matter.
Whereas if we have a small fever we won't go to office forget if we break our leg😉
SR: In a broad sense bhakti includes Guru, country etc
NP: I think Bhakti is devotion for something or someone inspiring. There is no doubt in our mind about the ideal. Also the higher the ideal more selfless will be the action and lesser ego
RP: We have read the sneha prema Bhakti sequence. Bhakti means the object of our love is considered great and we lovingly and proudly respect and accept the greatness.
Note that every powerful or great person does not become object of our devotion. There is something else that clicks
Probably the sense of belonging and personal connect with the full understanding of the greatness of the person or object
NP: Maybe that someone is what u want to be .
VS: Yes
Su: So all of us agree that love directed towards the higher is Bhakti...?
RP: Right. But there are other aspects if total love too - yashoda's love for child Krishna
Su: When we feel that emotion towards our equal it's love... towards the higher it's called devotion
I in yashoda's case it was love... not Bhakti
VS: The logic of equal.
RP: How about Radhas love then ?
VS: Logic of equal is not clear
Su: By equal I meant everyone/everything other than the Lord or some higher ideal like country etc
Radha... not sure
Love + devotion?
VS: Expressions can be different
Love, friendship
Servant
Su: Question was what is Bhakti and why Bhakti? I guess we will come to expression later
VS: Ok
NP: Bhakti is respect cum love
NG: Bhakti is what Hanuman had for Lord Ram
VS: Ans for what is clear
Why?
I mean we hv shared our views
SS: Bhakti is loving an ideal more than myself. It invokes surrender and self-forgetfulness. this can happen for the country, scriptures, guru, parents etc. Hence desh-bhakti or guru-bhakti or shastra-bhakti, matru-pitru bhakti etc. When it happens for the Supreme or the Highest then it is Ishwar-Bhakti.
Love, respect, security, faith are parts of this highest emotion.
VS: So does it mean that love, , respect or faith for anything other than God is also Bhakti
SS: Think about it based on what i just sent and you will find your answer there
GP: So now the question is, why do we need this bhakti?
SS: Actually the Lord alone is the one to whom one can surrender fully. Hence from a technical standpoint bhakti is applicable for the Lord alone. But in life we find many other altars of surrender and so we say its applicable there too
Let's go to -Why bhakti?
GP: Why bhakti? if there is no bhakti, I will not be able to look beyond myself and rise above my petty likes and dislikes. Bhakti helps me become selfless.
RP: Bhakti makes it very easy and provides the enthusiasm and energy to walk the path. Few things that Bhakti brings automatically - faith in The Lord, sense of being supported and cared for etc help a lot in overcoming self doubts and keeps us on the path - a great boon for the initial seeker who otherwise knows very little.
NP: Also I feel bmi integration is easier
VS: We need Bhakti because whenever we worship our Lord we try to imbibe the qualities of the Lord. This applies also to people whom we love and respect.
We know that ideal can give me complete happiness
NP: Our actions and thoughts are usually selfless if we have Bhakti for a higher ideal
RP: In general we know that emotions are able to conjure up a lot of energy - anger for example. But if you want energy that lasts long for a life time - then intellectual understanding of the ideal + strong love towards it can provide us that. Both are required else the energy fades out. And we just saw both together is Bhakti.
SS: Wonderful. Keep it going
SR: When i am inspired and have selfless love for a higher ideal, my ego & self importance reduces
There is more purity in action
GP: We sometimes have this wrong notion that bhakti is inferior to karma or gyaana. That it is only for the beginner or the weak and emotional seeker. But this is completely wrong.
NP: Then like what Ramkumar said, even if we have can't understand certain things Bhakti will sail us through till we are ready to understand
GP: Gurudev was the perfect living example of bhakti. Karma and gyaana in one person.
NP: Yeah!
But is Bhakti permanent or do we have to nurture it regularly?
VS: Yes
SS: Has to be nurtured.
RP: If we say intellectual understanding of ideal + love is Bhakti. Then by the equation when understanding goes up Bhakti goes up. That results in more love and when you love more you want to know more. it is a self feeding infinite cycle. It is not that Bhakti is constant in the equation and when you get more knowledge you have to reduce love. We know that's not true for sure.
SR: 'Pure' bhakti elevates the mind. Gyana, the intellect. Both ways ultimately takes us to the same goal...yes, it has to be consistently & sincerely practiced
KG: I thimk reapect follows love and so bhakti has strong aspect of respect too. To attempt Karma yoga specifically #2, 3, 5, 8, 10 from Swamiji's list, very essential. For Surrender need Bhakti and Bhakti will materialise in Surrender.
1.Perform your obligatory duties diligently and cheerfully. Niyatam kuru karma tvam.
2.Dedicate the duties to a higher cause / God. Ishwaraarpitam
3.Keep your Vision High.
4.Reduce self – importance & self- projection through teamwork or Yagna-Spirit
5.Love the very work itself.
6. Calm – Before, During and After the action. Samatvam Yoga Uchyate.
7. Don’t insist on particular results only.
8. Accept the results cheerfully as His Prasad with Humility & Equanimity.
9. Don’t attach your worth to work.
10. Know that you are only an instrument and not the doer. Nimmita-maatam bhava.
----
Bhakti is born out of knowledge, since one needs 2 acknowledge of the HIGHER. But did Shabari know of Rama's greatness?
SS: Yes. Her guru matanga rishi had told her
Bhakti is required for shakti, shaanti, virakti(dispassion) and Mukti.
Su: Bhakti is imperative for the The ability to give up doership
If I have to act as the instrument of the Lord... I need to love Him unconditionally
Dilution of ego is easier at the altar of love
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