RP : Summarizing from yesterday - key points. Keeping it v brief.
1. "Real" (sat) is something that exists in all periods of time
2. "Unreal" (asat) something that never exists eg horns on a mans head
3. Illusion (mithya) appears real for a period of time or in a particular state(dream). (Interestingly Mithya rhymes with Myth - so we can say the world is a myth ya? )
Rope and snake example. Rope is real . But if one is not able to see it as a rope then one could see it as something else - eg snake. Non apprehension of reality leads to misapprehension of reality.
GP : Isn't the rope unreal? Since it doesn't exist in all time periods?
RP : If some one talks of snake and you know it is a rope, you will say hey that snake is a myth. It is actually a rope and you have superimposed the image of snake on it. So in Hindi - Rassi par sarp ka aarop ( again rhymes with rope). Sat is rope and mithya is sarp. Exists only in the mind of that person.
The hold of the myth on our minds stops us from seeing the reality. It can be overcome - by systematic study, reflection - surrender.
Rest to be continued today....
GP the rope and snake is of course a popular example. Note that we could easily give example of unreal. More difficult to give a quick example for mithya and of course almost impossible for giving example of real.
So there in lies the secret. We can't see reality but can easily see mithya all around. Cant we use snake to discover the rope. Either by questioning the snake or by other methods,
SD : Hari Om Swamiji. I tried doing what you said yesterday. Consciously kept reminding myself about the illusionary aspect. It felt a bit weird especially when it came to Ishaan. There is a constant tug of war happening. But the slightly positive part is, that I somehow was not reacting to day to day situations the way I normally would. There was a sense of calm.
RP : So Swapna - your little Ishaan is surely real to you. How do you use that? Love and serve him selflessly without attachment and chances are you will realize the real Ishaan.
VS : yes anna. Thanks gp bhaiya for the wonderful post. every judgement, decision, relationship with people and situations are illusory.
AM : Whas really crazy is that the human mind always wants to know more about asat,mithya,agnyaan which are so difficult to understand and explain but we can give instant examples while sat and gnyaan has simple straight forward defination but so so difficult to give an apt practical example.
GP : But I think it's better to keep my mind occupied with such thoughts (analysis and understanding of sat, asat and mithya), rather than keeping it occupied with my usual dose of anger and jealousy and frustrations. Isn't it?
Su : I think as Swamiji said yesterday. Unreal and illusion depends from whose perspective you are looking. From our stand point snake is an illusion... but for the rope snake is unreal...
Totally agree GP!!
SS : Thank you for the summary ramkumarji. Mithya examples are all around us. Asat examples - plenty can be cooked up. Sat has NO examples. If it had, it would not be Sat.
Agree with GPji about keeping the mind engaged with satsang. Helps to zoom out and see the macro picture.
Glad to know that you tried applying - i am an illusion. This is an illusion. Anyone else tried? It will feel weird. If it does not then there is something wrong. Sense of calmness increases with practice and one faces life with equanimity. This is the best practice for it. It also helps one to enjoy more freely because attachment is not there. 👍
VS : tried but Couldn't do it yesterday. Got involved with the situation every time. So did not consciously observe.
Su : I also tried yesterday. Had gone to King George school to talk about Geeta Chanting comp... when I went the kg and primary section was leaving and in that heavy rain I was suddenly caught surrounded by around 1000+ children... all shouting at the same time... this is not a situation Iam comfortable in definitely... suddenly I found myself saying Sunitha this all an illusion... first I laughed because I found it weird and funny then abandoned the exercise because thought this is more of escaping then Vedanta.... but later I tired again when I was waiting to meet the principal... everytime I did it my mind felt weird and the thought am I escaping the present using Vedanta as an excuse kept occurring to me....
VS : I tried this is what we do all the time.
When we are in pain or getting an injection...
Su : When I was waiting for the principal I had nothing to escape was quite ok reading a book in her nice AC office .. even then somewhere the word escape was looming large.
VS : But illusion sometimes is so attractive and luring that we feel it's ok to get lost in it. E.g.my son Vaidhik... showering loads of affection.
SS : When a seasoned traveller sees a mirage in a desert and rejects it as an illusion, is it escapism or is he conserving energy by not running after it so that he finds an actual oasis?
When we say the 1000+ children shouting are an illusion. My standing there and getting shocked is also an illusion. Knowing this makes me relaxed and i can face the situation better. This relaxed response also is an illusion by the way. 😜
The joy you get while playing with toys with a child is known to us as an illusion. Yet we play. Does anyone consider that joy real? No. Does anyone playing with it knowing its not real feel its escapism?
VS : Thanks for the example Swamiji. Now it's clear.
SS : Today's satsang is Knowledge Cycle. We must understand it and then we enter Upadesha saar.
For those who cant see the image, it says knowledge determines our sense of identity which drives our vision of life or sense of purpose which forms our values, generates desires, creates thoughts which manifest as actions and gives us the results which further affects our knowledge.
VS : Swamiji... Here are we talking about sense of identity with the higher or the self?
SS : If my knowledge says money is everything then my identity is im a money-maker. Purpose is make maximum money. Value is for money more than anything else. Desire is for money. Thoughts about money. Actions for money. Result will be money/no money which will affect my actions. Apply this to any aspect. If my knowledge says im emotionally starved of love then identity is love-hungry. Purpose is to be loved. Value is maximum for love n desires are to get more love. Thoughts are about love n one compares with others etc. Actions express craving to be loved. Result may be i feel loved or more lonely. This affects my knowledge.
GP : Swamiji, in this knowledge cycle, where do vasanas fit in?
VS : I think GP bhaiya. Arent values n vasanas synonymous
SS : Vasanas and values are not same. Vasanas are unmanifest tendencies. They manifest as desires. They shape our values too.
Vasanas must come between knowledge and sense of identity.
I dint want to make it technical and ppl dont understand vasanas easily. Hence have kept it out.
SR : Similar situation happened with me- delayed heavy rains, flooded roads, traffic snarls, puzzled children, over anxious parents. Normally would be very upset at the civic authorities, ineffecient school staff, irate parents. But it was after our discussion. So tried to apply it. What an illusion! . See the fun !- as Brahmaji would say
SS : Excellent. This is actually called a Paradigm Shift in management language. 😄
Su : Thanks for the clarity Swamiji... though a part of me definitely knows it is not escapism, another part of my mind kept 'feeling'like that. That's my mind playing its tricks....when something new and something threatening to it is introduced. ..I guess.
SS : Yes Sunitha. This Happens to all seekers.
GP : Just for our clarity here swamiji, wouldn't vasanas come even before any knowledge we gain and our sense of identity? Don't our vasanas shape the way in which we acquire our knowledge as well?
SD : Thank you for saying what the image is. So we have to seek the right kind of knowledge. This cycle is beautiful.
Su : I agree with GP. Don't our Vasanas primarily determine what we seek and pursue.
SD : But can we call knowing the truth(Sat) as knowledge or isn't it what we are.
VS : Knowing something is illusion always pulls me back from the situation. Isn't it escapism?
Yet at that moment I feel bound by responsibility so I perform my duty or action because I feel it's escapism.
SD : I don't think its escapism and it does not pull u back.
U start doing things in a better, calmer and more productive way.
The reason being the knowledge you have that its merely an illusion.
SS : Vasanas influence our knowledge but are not the cause of our knowledge. If they were the cause then we would never get liberated. At the moment we have intellectual knowledge but vasanas dont allow the identity shift to happen from different roles to the role of a seeker. Hence purpose is not moksha but something else.
Intellectual Knowledge can come after vasana. But intuitive Self Knowledge comes before it.
GP : Got it swamiji!.
SS : Thats why it is better to keep vasana out of this cycle. We may know it for our clarity but let it be out. Its best fitted in BMI chart.
GP : Yes, makes sense.
SS : Vasanas being unmanifest we are never sure what they Are till they manifest as desires. But knowledge we can always gain by selfeffort and change our identity purpose values desires etc. Reason why we are confused about whats our purpose is becAuse we are not clear about our identity. Thats because we have not given enough importance to knowledge about ourselves world and Reality.
Hence change in knowledge can change everything. If we focus on knowledge and gain clarity, actions will also change. But if we dont get clarity and want to just apply what is half-baked knowledge, then it proves ineffective and we feel vedanta is not relevant at the moment in my life. I will see later.
GP : And this change in knowledge is possible through regular satsang and mananam?
SS : Once someone asked Guruji: is vedanta relevant to my life when im so busy, stressed, having so much responsibility etc. Guruji said: are you relevant to your life? Yes. Vedanta is about you. When you know yourself better you will deal with everything more effectively.
Yes change in knowledge happens through 1. Thought level: Satsang and manan. 2. Mind Level: Spiritual disciplines like pooja, japa, meditation etc. To cultivate devotion and single-pointedness Because emotions have to be harnessed. Intellectual knowledge is effective only if there is feeling accompanied by it. 3. Action level: Practices to be selfless in relationships and work - like living dharma, not compromising, giving more than what we take etc
Swadhyaya Sadhana Seva Samyam are 4 aspects necessary for Spiritual Unfoldment.
VS : Great Swamiji...
1. Vasanas are not the cause but the influence.
2. Right knowledge gives right values that create right thoughts.
3. Practice is required at all personality levels.
So the gap is created when one of the personalities is ignored.
So knowledge helps understand the importance and develop love for the higher. Which helps me perform my spiritual disciplines and daily activities.
SS : 👍vinod
Su : Got it Swamiji... thanks
NG : Tried practicing doing one thing at a time. It seemed easier than the illusion part. But its really tough to not multi task. Have got so used to believing productivity increases that way!
SS : Yes it seems multi-tasking speeds us up but it slows us actually and harms our decision making capacity. Psychology says we take 3 times more the time we take, doing things with focus. Sunitha you can explain more about it.
Su : The brain is not made for multi tasking. Everytime we shift focus every few minutes, the brain eventually loses it's capacity to filter out irrelevant information. Because what is relevant to task 1 is irrelevant to task 2...over a period of time the filter mechanism of the brain drains out and then there is information overload as it takes all the stimuli Around without any filtering... which slows it down eventually..
GP : Interesting
Su : When we do one thing at a time as much the brain becomes very focused and becomes very sharp in filtering irrelevant stimuli which eventually lead to fantastic focus and increased processing speed of the brain.
NP : No wonder, ever since I've become a mother I've been milti tasking and I feel just so emotionally drained.
Tried doing that one thing at a time yesterday. But just on one or two occasions. Very poor beginning 😔
Su : It will take time Nilima because now that has become the default mode of our brain. We have to make proactive effort to make the shift.
PS : Nilima, I totally agree with you.
I use to think multi tasking a virtue, but does not seem so.
GP : There is one simple technique that I use which helps with this in a big way.
Put everything that you need to do in a 'to-do' list. This can be an electronic list on your phone or in a small pocket-diary that you carry around with you. No matter how small or big the task, religiously note it down in this list. The very fact that you have got it out of your head and in a list, half the burden on your head goes away. And then take up each item one by one and keep ticking it off or scratching it off your list. It helps you avoid mentally mutli-task and also gives you a sense of control and achievement.
And make a fresh list every day. Try it out for a few days. Its helped me a lot.
SD : I do that and my husband finds it funny.
Su : I tried it once or twice... really helped. Will start again
PS : Making list of 'to do' items is imp. But sticking to it is very difficult. Invariably, you get thoughts of other "to do" items while you are doing it. Then try to shift between the "to do" items.
NP : But I really like the idea. Because at least u don't waste time going through it in your head. Otherwise it's like always trying to remember what else uve got to do. Thanks gp.
GP : When other 'to do' thoughts come up, add them to your to-do list. Then it's out of your head. You can then attack it, if it is high priority, after you complete your current task. If it is extremely urgent and cannot wait, then move your current task back into your to-do list. With some practice, this works and is really effective.
N2 : How abt making a priority list and sticking by it?
I went through the entire chat now. And have some questions.
NP : Shoot
N2 : Why is intellectual knowledge only effective if there is feeling accompanied by it???
I thought it should have been the other way round.
GP : Neeti, swamiji said this in the context of how we can change the knowledge in us and give importance to knowledge about ourselves, the world and reality and get clarity in us. To change this knowledge we should do sadhana at various levels of our BMI. Intellectual level knowledge is not sufficient, it has to be accompanied by feeling (right set of emotions). The reverse is also true. Emotions alone are not enough. They should be backed by intellectual understanding.
SS : Intellectually we all know anger is not good and peace is best. But do we feel peace is more important? No. Our feeling is anger is power. Hence the knowledge of controlling anger is not effective
NP : Eg Intellectually u know you should love your country work for its development etc, but when u are inspires you will go to any lengths to serve your country.
N2 : I do not think anger is power.
I do know it is bad, harmful etc....
But it's still something so hard to ctrl
Maybe I don't go around screaming and shouting and ppl
But I think it's worse.... passive aggressive, no
NP : Neeti, all of us r in the same boat. Swamiji gave us 2 exercises to do. One don't multitask. Keep your mind where your hands are. And second try and remember throughout the day that it is all an illusion. It will reduce your anger and calm you down after regular practice
Refer to the previous chat, with the snake and rope example
N2 : First one is not all that diff.... I can't multi task..... It's the first time ever I have been told it's a good thing! !!
Yes I did go thru that.
The day is an illusion? ??
I read that but not sure I understood
Though I do understand the snake and rope eg
SS : Yes it is. Even this chat n the phone u r holding and the entity reading it. All are illusions. Appearing real at that moment. Gone the next.
N2 : How is that?
If this is an illusion why be a part of this???
And by that logic I am not real?
SS : In a desert, mirage appears real but is it real? It cant quench our thirst. World is a mirage which never quenches our thirst.
U chose to consider it reality. U can choose to know it as illusion n be free
Yes you are not real. Go back to the definitions of real unreal and illusion n ponder over it
N2 : A mirage is not real swamiji, but like it was mentioned in the chat earlier. .. if we think all is illusion... the travellers will miss the oasis!
NP : Neeti we r part of this coz we are suffering living in the illusion.
N2 : All for nothing! !!
GP : No no, that's not the way to interpret it.
SS : Oasis is not in the mirage. Only by knowing mirage as mirage one seeks oasis. If mirage is seen as oasis it disappoints a person and exhausts him.
N2 : But if I think this is all an illusion and don't want to do all it takes to get thru the day....
But swamiji u will know its a mirage only by chasing every mirage right
GP : Once we understand that this is an illusion, we will not get stressed and bogged down by it. We will instead be able to enjoy the ride through the day
SS : Joys of childhood are illusory now. They were real then. Even now we may play but no attachment and hence we enjoy more
N2 : Sorry I feel like I am going round in circles.
Why r the joys of the childhood an illusion?
It's a real memory.
SS : Yes, chase the world but also reflect upon what you got. Did your basic demand get fulfilled?
Example of childhood has limitations.
SS : Exercise for today for everyone: think about three basic questions. 1. What do i really seek in life? 2. From where do i get it? 3. How do i get it?
N2 : Swamiji, such difficult questions! !!
SS : These are basic by the way! Yesterday's were tough
Answer the 3 questions from your heart and not the head.
Applies to everyone.
N2 : U just made the test tougher!!!
SS : Think of toughness as illusion. U can relax then n start introspecting. 😄
Go back to where the discussion came to 3 questions. Most Basic demands of ours, world cant satisfy ever and the world is changing all the time. Hence its an illusion. This requires thinking and introspection. So take your time.
Courage comes from clarity and conviction.
GP : Swamiji, the circle of knowledge can either be a virtuous circle or a vicious circle depending on the type of knowledge we are focused on. Isn't it?
SS : Yes
GP : The problem is that sometimes we're so lost in the circle that most times we don't even realise we're spiralling down.
SS : True
"Alertness and vigilant living is the price you pay for freedom" said Poojya Gurudev Sw. Chinmayananda
JV : GP. Most times we are lost. And when you try to get out of it, circumstances drag you back in.
GP : I think this is where satsang helps us pause and reflect and help us keep getting out of the vicious spiral and slowly move into a virtuous one.
SS : Yes satsang is the way
GP : I think that's one key reason why most of us keep coming back
JV : Totally! Gratitude to swamiji and thank you sunitha for dragging me out of slumber
SS : In our life is every moment not a sadhana? Is sadhana not synonymous with inner struggle? Is Spirituality not all-inclusive to include all our daily struggles and getting lost n coming back etc?
When we know this we relax. There is no need to divide life into material life and spiritual life.
Gurudev said-"Spirituality is not a way to look at certain things. Its a certain way to look at all things." Another quote of His - "All falls are a rise in the total. Keep moving."
Gratitude - only for Gurudev Jignesh. All of us are co-seekers walking the path.
JV : Makes complete sense. No point on running away, rather, within with total sakshi bhav.
1. "Real" (sat) is something that exists in all periods of time
2. "Unreal" (asat) something that never exists eg horns on a mans head
3. Illusion (mithya) appears real for a period of time or in a particular state(dream). (Interestingly Mithya rhymes with Myth - so we can say the world is a myth ya? )
Rope and snake example. Rope is real . But if one is not able to see it as a rope then one could see it as something else - eg snake. Non apprehension of reality leads to misapprehension of reality.
GP : Isn't the rope unreal? Since it doesn't exist in all time periods?
RP : If some one talks of snake and you know it is a rope, you will say hey that snake is a myth. It is actually a rope and you have superimposed the image of snake on it. So in Hindi - Rassi par sarp ka aarop ( again rhymes with rope). Sat is rope and mithya is sarp. Exists only in the mind of that person.
The hold of the myth on our minds stops us from seeing the reality. It can be overcome - by systematic study, reflection - surrender.
Rest to be continued today....
GP the rope and snake is of course a popular example. Note that we could easily give example of unreal. More difficult to give a quick example for mithya and of course almost impossible for giving example of real.
So there in lies the secret. We can't see reality but can easily see mithya all around. Cant we use snake to discover the rope. Either by questioning the snake or by other methods,
SD : Hari Om Swamiji. I tried doing what you said yesterday. Consciously kept reminding myself about the illusionary aspect. It felt a bit weird especially when it came to Ishaan. There is a constant tug of war happening. But the slightly positive part is, that I somehow was not reacting to day to day situations the way I normally would. There was a sense of calm.
RP : So Swapna - your little Ishaan is surely real to you. How do you use that? Love and serve him selflessly without attachment and chances are you will realize the real Ishaan.
VS : yes anna. Thanks gp bhaiya for the wonderful post. every judgement, decision, relationship with people and situations are illusory.
AM : Whas really crazy is that the human mind always wants to know more about asat,mithya,agnyaan which are so difficult to understand and explain but we can give instant examples while sat and gnyaan has simple straight forward defination but so so difficult to give an apt practical example.
GP : But I think it's better to keep my mind occupied with such thoughts (analysis and understanding of sat, asat and mithya), rather than keeping it occupied with my usual dose of anger and jealousy and frustrations. Isn't it?
Su : I think as Swamiji said yesterday. Unreal and illusion depends from whose perspective you are looking. From our stand point snake is an illusion... but for the rope snake is unreal...
Totally agree GP!!
SS : Thank you for the summary ramkumarji. Mithya examples are all around us. Asat examples - plenty can be cooked up. Sat has NO examples. If it had, it would not be Sat.
Agree with GPji about keeping the mind engaged with satsang. Helps to zoom out and see the macro picture.
Glad to know that you tried applying - i am an illusion. This is an illusion. Anyone else tried? It will feel weird. If it does not then there is something wrong. Sense of calmness increases with practice and one faces life with equanimity. This is the best practice for it. It also helps one to enjoy more freely because attachment is not there. 👍
VS : tried but Couldn't do it yesterday. Got involved with the situation every time. So did not consciously observe.
Su : I also tried yesterday. Had gone to King George school to talk about Geeta Chanting comp... when I went the kg and primary section was leaving and in that heavy rain I was suddenly caught surrounded by around 1000+ children... all shouting at the same time... this is not a situation Iam comfortable in definitely... suddenly I found myself saying Sunitha this all an illusion... first I laughed because I found it weird and funny then abandoned the exercise because thought this is more of escaping then Vedanta.... but later I tired again when I was waiting to meet the principal... everytime I did it my mind felt weird and the thought am I escaping the present using Vedanta as an excuse kept occurring to me....
VS : I tried this is what we do all the time.
When we are in pain or getting an injection...
Su : When I was waiting for the principal I had nothing to escape was quite ok reading a book in her nice AC office .. even then somewhere the word escape was looming large.
VS : But illusion sometimes is so attractive and luring that we feel it's ok to get lost in it. E.g.my son Vaidhik... showering loads of affection.
SS : When a seasoned traveller sees a mirage in a desert and rejects it as an illusion, is it escapism or is he conserving energy by not running after it so that he finds an actual oasis?
When we say the 1000+ children shouting are an illusion. My standing there and getting shocked is also an illusion. Knowing this makes me relaxed and i can face the situation better. This relaxed response also is an illusion by the way. 😜
The joy you get while playing with toys with a child is known to us as an illusion. Yet we play. Does anyone consider that joy real? No. Does anyone playing with it knowing its not real feel its escapism?
VS : Thanks for the example Swamiji. Now it's clear.
SS : Today's satsang is Knowledge Cycle. We must understand it and then we enter Upadesha saar.
For those who cant see the image, it says knowledge determines our sense of identity which drives our vision of life or sense of purpose which forms our values, generates desires, creates thoughts which manifest as actions and gives us the results which further affects our knowledge.
VS : Swamiji... Here are we talking about sense of identity with the higher or the self?
SS : If my knowledge says money is everything then my identity is im a money-maker. Purpose is make maximum money. Value is for money more than anything else. Desire is for money. Thoughts about money. Actions for money. Result will be money/no money which will affect my actions. Apply this to any aspect. If my knowledge says im emotionally starved of love then identity is love-hungry. Purpose is to be loved. Value is maximum for love n desires are to get more love. Thoughts are about love n one compares with others etc. Actions express craving to be loved. Result may be i feel loved or more lonely. This affects my knowledge.
GP : Swamiji, in this knowledge cycle, where do vasanas fit in?
VS : I think GP bhaiya. Arent values n vasanas synonymous
SS : Vasanas and values are not same. Vasanas are unmanifest tendencies. They manifest as desires. They shape our values too.
Vasanas must come between knowledge and sense of identity.
I dint want to make it technical and ppl dont understand vasanas easily. Hence have kept it out.
SR : Similar situation happened with me- delayed heavy rains, flooded roads, traffic snarls, puzzled children, over anxious parents. Normally would be very upset at the civic authorities, ineffecient school staff, irate parents. But it was after our discussion. So tried to apply it. What an illusion! . See the fun !- as Brahmaji would say
SS : Excellent. This is actually called a Paradigm Shift in management language. 😄
Su : Thanks for the clarity Swamiji... though a part of me definitely knows it is not escapism, another part of my mind kept 'feeling'like that. That's my mind playing its tricks....when something new and something threatening to it is introduced. ..I guess.
SS : Yes Sunitha. This Happens to all seekers.
GP : Just for our clarity here swamiji, wouldn't vasanas come even before any knowledge we gain and our sense of identity? Don't our vasanas shape the way in which we acquire our knowledge as well?
SD : Thank you for saying what the image is. So we have to seek the right kind of knowledge. This cycle is beautiful.
Su : I agree with GP. Don't our Vasanas primarily determine what we seek and pursue.
SD : But can we call knowing the truth(Sat) as knowledge or isn't it what we are.
VS : Knowing something is illusion always pulls me back from the situation. Isn't it escapism?
Yet at that moment I feel bound by responsibility so I perform my duty or action because I feel it's escapism.
SD : I don't think its escapism and it does not pull u back.
U start doing things in a better, calmer and more productive way.
The reason being the knowledge you have that its merely an illusion.
SS : Vasanas influence our knowledge but are not the cause of our knowledge. If they were the cause then we would never get liberated. At the moment we have intellectual knowledge but vasanas dont allow the identity shift to happen from different roles to the role of a seeker. Hence purpose is not moksha but something else.
Intellectual Knowledge can come after vasana. But intuitive Self Knowledge comes before it.
GP : Got it swamiji!.
SS : Thats why it is better to keep vasana out of this cycle. We may know it for our clarity but let it be out. Its best fitted in BMI chart.
GP : Yes, makes sense.
SS : Vasanas being unmanifest we are never sure what they Are till they manifest as desires. But knowledge we can always gain by selfeffort and change our identity purpose values desires etc. Reason why we are confused about whats our purpose is becAuse we are not clear about our identity. Thats because we have not given enough importance to knowledge about ourselves world and Reality.
Hence change in knowledge can change everything. If we focus on knowledge and gain clarity, actions will also change. But if we dont get clarity and want to just apply what is half-baked knowledge, then it proves ineffective and we feel vedanta is not relevant at the moment in my life. I will see later.
GP : And this change in knowledge is possible through regular satsang and mananam?
SS : Once someone asked Guruji: is vedanta relevant to my life when im so busy, stressed, having so much responsibility etc. Guruji said: are you relevant to your life? Yes. Vedanta is about you. When you know yourself better you will deal with everything more effectively.
Yes change in knowledge happens through 1. Thought level: Satsang and manan. 2. Mind Level: Spiritual disciplines like pooja, japa, meditation etc. To cultivate devotion and single-pointedness Because emotions have to be harnessed. Intellectual knowledge is effective only if there is feeling accompanied by it. 3. Action level: Practices to be selfless in relationships and work - like living dharma, not compromising, giving more than what we take etc
Swadhyaya Sadhana Seva Samyam are 4 aspects necessary for Spiritual Unfoldment.
VS : Great Swamiji...
1. Vasanas are not the cause but the influence.
2. Right knowledge gives right values that create right thoughts.
3. Practice is required at all personality levels.
So the gap is created when one of the personalities is ignored.
So knowledge helps understand the importance and develop love for the higher. Which helps me perform my spiritual disciplines and daily activities.
SS : 👍vinod
Su : Got it Swamiji... thanks
NG : Tried practicing doing one thing at a time. It seemed easier than the illusion part. But its really tough to not multi task. Have got so used to believing productivity increases that way!
SS : Yes it seems multi-tasking speeds us up but it slows us actually and harms our decision making capacity. Psychology says we take 3 times more the time we take, doing things with focus. Sunitha you can explain more about it.
Su : The brain is not made for multi tasking. Everytime we shift focus every few minutes, the brain eventually loses it's capacity to filter out irrelevant information. Because what is relevant to task 1 is irrelevant to task 2...over a period of time the filter mechanism of the brain drains out and then there is information overload as it takes all the stimuli Around without any filtering... which slows it down eventually..
GP : Interesting
Su : When we do one thing at a time as much the brain becomes very focused and becomes very sharp in filtering irrelevant stimuli which eventually lead to fantastic focus and increased processing speed of the brain.
NP : No wonder, ever since I've become a mother I've been milti tasking and I feel just so emotionally drained.
Tried doing that one thing at a time yesterday. But just on one or two occasions. Very poor beginning 😔
Su : It will take time Nilima because now that has become the default mode of our brain. We have to make proactive effort to make the shift.
PS : Nilima, I totally agree with you.
I use to think multi tasking a virtue, but does not seem so.
GP : There is one simple technique that I use which helps with this in a big way.
Put everything that you need to do in a 'to-do' list. This can be an electronic list on your phone or in a small pocket-diary that you carry around with you. No matter how small or big the task, religiously note it down in this list. The very fact that you have got it out of your head and in a list, half the burden on your head goes away. And then take up each item one by one and keep ticking it off or scratching it off your list. It helps you avoid mentally mutli-task and also gives you a sense of control and achievement.
And make a fresh list every day. Try it out for a few days. Its helped me a lot.
SD : I do that and my husband finds it funny.
Su : I tried it once or twice... really helped. Will start again
PS : Making list of 'to do' items is imp. But sticking to it is very difficult. Invariably, you get thoughts of other "to do" items while you are doing it. Then try to shift between the "to do" items.
NP : But I really like the idea. Because at least u don't waste time going through it in your head. Otherwise it's like always trying to remember what else uve got to do. Thanks gp.
GP : When other 'to do' thoughts come up, add them to your to-do list. Then it's out of your head. You can then attack it, if it is high priority, after you complete your current task. If it is extremely urgent and cannot wait, then move your current task back into your to-do list. With some practice, this works and is really effective.
N2 : How abt making a priority list and sticking by it?
I went through the entire chat now. And have some questions.
NP : Shoot
N2 : Why is intellectual knowledge only effective if there is feeling accompanied by it???
I thought it should have been the other way round.
GP : Neeti, swamiji said this in the context of how we can change the knowledge in us and give importance to knowledge about ourselves, the world and reality and get clarity in us. To change this knowledge we should do sadhana at various levels of our BMI. Intellectual level knowledge is not sufficient, it has to be accompanied by feeling (right set of emotions). The reverse is also true. Emotions alone are not enough. They should be backed by intellectual understanding.
SS : Intellectually we all know anger is not good and peace is best. But do we feel peace is more important? No. Our feeling is anger is power. Hence the knowledge of controlling anger is not effective
NP : Eg Intellectually u know you should love your country work for its development etc, but when u are inspires you will go to any lengths to serve your country.
N2 : I do not think anger is power.
I do know it is bad, harmful etc....
But it's still something so hard to ctrl
Maybe I don't go around screaming and shouting and ppl
But I think it's worse.... passive aggressive, no
NP : Neeti, all of us r in the same boat. Swamiji gave us 2 exercises to do. One don't multitask. Keep your mind where your hands are. And second try and remember throughout the day that it is all an illusion. It will reduce your anger and calm you down after regular practice
Refer to the previous chat, with the snake and rope example
N2 : First one is not all that diff.... I can't multi task..... It's the first time ever I have been told it's a good thing! !!
Yes I did go thru that.
The day is an illusion? ??
I read that but not sure I understood
Though I do understand the snake and rope eg
SS : Yes it is. Even this chat n the phone u r holding and the entity reading it. All are illusions. Appearing real at that moment. Gone the next.
N2 : How is that?
If this is an illusion why be a part of this???
And by that logic I am not real?
SS : In a desert, mirage appears real but is it real? It cant quench our thirst. World is a mirage which never quenches our thirst.
U chose to consider it reality. U can choose to know it as illusion n be free
Yes you are not real. Go back to the definitions of real unreal and illusion n ponder over it
N2 : A mirage is not real swamiji, but like it was mentioned in the chat earlier. .. if we think all is illusion... the travellers will miss the oasis!
NP : Neeti we r part of this coz we are suffering living in the illusion.
N2 : All for nothing! !!
GP : No no, that's not the way to interpret it.
SS : Oasis is not in the mirage. Only by knowing mirage as mirage one seeks oasis. If mirage is seen as oasis it disappoints a person and exhausts him.
N2 : But if I think this is all an illusion and don't want to do all it takes to get thru the day....
But swamiji u will know its a mirage only by chasing every mirage right
GP : Once we understand that this is an illusion, we will not get stressed and bogged down by it. We will instead be able to enjoy the ride through the day
SS : Joys of childhood are illusory now. They were real then. Even now we may play but no attachment and hence we enjoy more
N2 : Sorry I feel like I am going round in circles.
Why r the joys of the childhood an illusion?
It's a real memory.
SS : Yes, chase the world but also reflect upon what you got. Did your basic demand get fulfilled?
Example of childhood has limitations.
SS : Exercise for today for everyone: think about three basic questions. 1. What do i really seek in life? 2. From where do i get it? 3. How do i get it?
N2 : Swamiji, such difficult questions! !!
SS : These are basic by the way! Yesterday's were tough
Answer the 3 questions from your heart and not the head.
Applies to everyone.
N2 : U just made the test tougher!!!
SS : Think of toughness as illusion. U can relax then n start introspecting. 😄
Go back to where the discussion came to 3 questions. Most Basic demands of ours, world cant satisfy ever and the world is changing all the time. Hence its an illusion. This requires thinking and introspection. So take your time.
Courage comes from clarity and conviction.
GP : Swamiji, the circle of knowledge can either be a virtuous circle or a vicious circle depending on the type of knowledge we are focused on. Isn't it?
SS : Yes
GP : The problem is that sometimes we're so lost in the circle that most times we don't even realise we're spiralling down.
SS : True
"Alertness and vigilant living is the price you pay for freedom" said Poojya Gurudev Sw. Chinmayananda
JV : GP. Most times we are lost. And when you try to get out of it, circumstances drag you back in.
GP : I think this is where satsang helps us pause and reflect and help us keep getting out of the vicious spiral and slowly move into a virtuous one.
SS : Yes satsang is the way
GP : I think that's one key reason why most of us keep coming back
JV : Totally! Gratitude to swamiji and thank you sunitha for dragging me out of slumber
SS : In our life is every moment not a sadhana? Is sadhana not synonymous with inner struggle? Is Spirituality not all-inclusive to include all our daily struggles and getting lost n coming back etc?
When we know this we relax. There is no need to divide life into material life and spiritual life.
Gurudev said-"Spirituality is not a way to look at certain things. Its a certain way to look at all things." Another quote of His - "All falls are a rise in the total. Keep moving."
Gratitude - only for Gurudev Jignesh. All of us are co-seekers walking the path.
JV : Makes complete sense. No point on running away, rather, within with total sakshi bhav.
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