Upadesha Saar : Introduction - Day 1

 

Swami Swatmanandaji (SS) : These are 3 powerful lines before upadesha saar begins. Lets reflect. Why is this illusion? What is the Truth? Why surrender?

GP : Why this illusion? I do not perceive the real. Instead I superimpose my warped perception of the reality on the real. And I then firmly believe my perception to be real.

And my warped perception of reality is based on my own fears and past impressions gained through my own past experiences.

NG : The illusion or misperception  is because of my ego. And surrender is a way to reduce the ego.

RB : This world is unreal. But feels real. That's why it is illusion.

GP : Why is the world unreal? If it is, then why do we experience at as real?

SS : So coming to basics- whats real? Whats unreal? Whats illusion?

VK : UnReal is what we experience at the BMI level - when we transcend this level that's when we experience Real - illusion is that we believe that the unreal is real because we do not have the ability to transcend.

NP : Real is that which is constant, unchanging at all times. Unreal is that which appears to us as real, but instead keeps changing according to whatever level our BMI is at.

Also just taking what ... GP said earlier, our warped perceptions also affect our dealings in the unreal world and makes me suffer because at the moment for me this unreal world is real.

Su : We are right now trying to understand the Real thru the BMI which itself is unreal.  So then trying to define or understand the real from our stand point right now... how useful Will that be. So may be the focus should be more in what is the unreal right now....

SS : What has been expressed about unreal is not what unreal is. We need to think more. Our definitions of real unreal and illusion need to be more precise.

JV : We are trying to pass off our experiences as unreal. Not sure whether that's the right approach. 'I exist' is real for sure. Now the search begins from this known stand point.

SS : Our experiences are unreal or illusion? Whats the difference?

VK : How do we translate this into practical life ?

SS : Knowing the difference between real, unreal and illusion helps to shape our vision and attitude to deal with life. If rope is known as a snake one is scared. If snake is known as illusion one stops getting affected and starts enquiry about whats there if there is no snake. Finally rope is known and one is liberated from all stress, fear n insecurity.

Vedanta takes us to the roots... Most fundamental questions when we are clear about life is much easier to handle.

NP : But for this enquiry my equipment has become rusted 😔

Su : Lol.... I guess most of us are in the same boat ....

SS : It can get sharpened by effort. Start.

NP : Swamiji please also give us some exercise to do everyday to improve the mind. Sorry but I need some spoon feeding!

SS : Exercise 1: do one thing at a time. Even if you are thinking focus on one topic and then go to next. Dont jump from thought to thought. Bring your mind where your hands are.

SR : So can we say swamiji, in answer to your question, our experiences are unreal (subjective, relative). But we believe it to be real- that is the illusion which we are unaware or at least not full y aware of.

SS : Real- that which exists and is changeless in all 3 periods of time. Eg. Rope. Unreal - which never exists. Eg. Horns on a man's head. Illusion- what which is not but appears to be. A superimposition on the real or a misapprehension of the real. Eg. Snake on the rope. Sat is real. Asat is unreal. Mithya is illusion. Very important to know this difference.

Sunitaji please think based on the above definitions.

VK : Are our family and responsibilities real or unreal ?

SS : Vivek think about the question based on the definitions

Family responsibilities cant be real because they change and they do end at a point in life. But we dont consider that possibility at all. Thats a diff point so i wont go into it. Responsibilities cant be unreal because the relationships exist. Hence they are an illusion. Appear real. Knowing this liberates us from stress of relationships and we focus on our duty not response of people because my objective is not their approval but doing duty n making the mind quiet to know that which is Real.

Not knowing them as an illusion how much stress anxiety depression we go through. People even end lives because of relationships.

Do these relationships exist in dream or deep-sleep or in state of absorption in work? No. Which means they are one aspect of one state which is waking. We lose holistic picture and make them everything. This is what vedanta reminds us. We handle relationships better with the space that comes in thru this understanding.

GP : Family is unreal. My feeling that I'm the head of the family and should provide for my family is an illusion (sunanda believes she is the head! :P).

SS : Family is an illusion GPji. Not unreal. Unreal does not exist. Sunanda exists n her idea of that she is the head also exists :P though it may be an illusion! Head may be neither one and someone else may be the head. :P that may be the reality. :P

GP : Got it swamiji.

SD : Trying to assimilate it all. To put this knowledge into practice is the challenge. Thank you for the exercise Swamiji. Like Neelima my rusted thought process needs oiling and spoonfeeding.

GP : So can I conclude by saying that if it doesn't exist in all 3 time-periods, then it is unreal; and if it appears to exist (like my family) then it's an illlusion?

SS : Yes GPji

NP : Swamiji what is the unreal aspect in the family example?

SS : Till we consider the world as real we depend on it for happiness. When we understand the world including our body mind intellect to be illusion our dependency drops. We do whats necessary with freedom. Thats a beautiful way to live life.

Expecting permanent happiness love approval etc from others is unreal because it does not exist there.

Thats the unreal aspect of family. Differences dont exist. Thats unreal aspect. It appears to exist there, is the illusion. Reality is all of us are One. At all levels. As humans, as one family, as living beings and as satchitananda. At any level let go of differences and see oneness. Thats practical vedanta. Mother loves the child bec of oneness she sees. Patriot loves the country....

NP : Ok so doing our duty without expectation is illusion. Expecting something g in return is unreal.

SS : Doing duty without expectation is our response to understanding that relationships are temporary illusion. Expecting something is the actual illusion that makes us suffer.

SD : I guess once this strikes home we can go thru any situation with a smile as we know that what is happening is merely an illusion. Be a spectator.

SS : When relationships are considered real, our expectations make us attached. We get bound. When we consider them as illusion we are flexible and can love more. Relationships then become a means to selflessness and giving. That purifies the mind to seek the Happiness thats our Nature.

True swapna.

The question what did i get becomes redundant. Do we ask that question when we wake up from a dream? No. Why? Because it was an illusion. Knowing illusion as illusion frees us. Knowing it as real binds us.

SD : Yes be a witness to events and not the victim.

SS : Practice of 1st line can be done as follows: remind yourself in a day as many times as you can: "i am an illusion. This is an illusion". I here means the individual and not Self. This will weaken the reality we have given to ourselves and the world. Start with what u love the most. Eg.: if im eating a pizza or interacting with my kid, i have to tell myself that im an illusion and the pizza/kid is an illusion. Observe what happens when you do this. You will be amazed.

Whoever practices this let us know what you felt when you did it.

Su : Swamiji, even the thought of doing it makes me a little uncomfortable....  😥

RP : Swamiji , in theory I understand that this whole world is an illusion. "Ekam Satya jagat mithya." But tend to easily forget this when acting practically, illusion tends to be over powering. In relationship emotions easily gets us carried away. How can we constantly remember this.

SS : Vedanta will shake our fundamental assumptions. Any change brings discomfort.

Su : Yup... but will do it...

NP : I remember once what vimalananadaji said. She quoted Arun shourie. How Gurudev impacted his life. His mother took him and his siblings for Gurudev's talks. Gurudev gave the eg of a man sitting on the banks of a river peacefully. He saw a basket floating from far. His curiosity slowly was aroused and when the basket came closer he swam across to catch it. He could catch the basket but at that point the river was flowing more forcefully. He had to either let go of the basket or drown. He let go of it. He came back to the bank and cried mera basket Chala Gaya !!!

Years later during the emergency when he was the editor of Indian express and asked to step down. He went home depressed. His mother asked him why, and she said arre basket Aaya, basket Chala Gaya, us me Rona Kya. And they both burst out laughing. Something which could have been unsettling, turned trivial by mere change of thought.

SS : Rushi i just gave a way to practice. Try it for a few days n see. Also enquire if you really believe that world is an illusion. We think we believe, but actually we dont. When we believe in something fully, it affects our actions instantly. There is no gap. Eg fire is hot. Hence i wont touch it.

Beautiful anecdote neelima.

NP : So basically our family, job etc is the basket, we live in the illusion that it is ours forever.

Even our mind,  and body are the basket.

RP : Will try.

SS : Answer to your question also lies in 2nd and third line rushi. I seek the Truth in seeking surrender. These are the lines.

KG : Swamiji trying to engulf - Illusion means everything that exists/real but cannot be guaranteed for eternity.

SS : Yes. Everything thats changing and is an appearance is illusion. Change is every moment.

GP : I didn't understand the 3rd line swamiji. How do I seek surrender? And does it mean that seeking to surrender is the same as seeking truth; or that by surrendering I will be ready to seek the truth?

SS : By surrendering i will be ready to seek the Truth. Surrender is the only way to the Goal- The Truth. Surrender of false notions that im a father, mother, friend etc and knowing that Im a seeker playing different roles. This attempt is called seeking to surrender. Why would one do this? To know the Truth. Hence it is said i Seek the Truth in seeking to surrender. Ultimately im a seeker also goes away when i realize im one with the Sought or Truth. In this surrender is total and seeking stops. Truth alone is.

Su : When I say that the snake in the rope is an illusion,  it means that Iam seeing a snake when there is actually a rope (the Real). If you say relationships are an illusion... I dont understand their relative reality. Because everything is changing all the time, so almost everything is an illusion.... so then what is unreal.

SS : Yes everything is an illusion. Unreal is that which actually does not exist. Eg. Darkness for sun is unreal. When a dreamer wakes up he realizes that the dream duality was unreal. Hence we say that from standpoint of Real - it alone is. World is unreal. It never existed. But we are not at that level. So we say world is neither real nor unreal. Its an illusion.

At a relationship level we can say oneness is real. Differences are unreal. Our projections about people are an illusion.

Su : Ok this is food for thought.... needs a lot of thinking!!

VS : Hari Om Swamiji!  What is the solution for a person who has become rigid for change and lost the confidence to improve.  All the regular anushtanas continue but all seem mechanical.

Can appreciate what is illusion and unreal. How does that surrender happen? In short how do we appreciate and constantly be aware of the permanent?

SS : Where there is love there is no mechanicalness and there is surrender.

Parent loves child. Musician loves music. Patriot loves country. Foodie loves food.... Devotee loves God. Seeker loves Truth.

Love for the higher Self in me or Ishwara is devotion. Thats the answer for all ur questions. Love means remembrance.  We constantly think of beloved and find joy in it. No mechanicalness. We all need devotion. That brings about surrender too.

Rigidity to change, lost confidence etc is gone when love is invoked.

VS : How do we develop this love Swamiji... for something we are yet to discover.

SS : Upadesha saar will tell us that.

Knowledge and clarity are most essential to develop devotion which is natural in all of us. Just that right now its channelized outside.

VS : Ok... meanwhile we need to be convinced that the rest are all illusion?

How do we differentiate conviction of the unreal from escapism?

SS : It has to be conviction of illusion. Not unreal.

Escapism is tamasic and without a goal. Makes one dull and indulgent. Discrimination is sattvik and one seeks the highest goal of life. Makes one selfless and giving.

VS: Thanks Swamiji. So to stay fixed to the higher goal and to develop love to that real and constant vigilance is what we need to have.

GP : Swamiji, that concept of seek the truth in seeking to surrender is beautiful. Got it now.

On another note, aren't illusions possible only on the bedrock of the truth? With out the foundation of truth, the illusion cannot arise, can it? Without the rope, I cannot see the snake, right?

SS : True GPJi. Illusion is a distorted perception of Truth or misapprehension of Truth.

VS : Very nice point GP bhaiya.  so does that mean everything is a manifestation of truth. but we get deluded because we perceive it wrongly?

SS : Yes vinod

VK : But for me to know that snake is a rope I need to know snake and I need to know rope - in our circumstance we don't even know what the rope is ( reality) - so how do we seek that which we don't know ?

SS : We all know. But we think we dont because we make concepts of it. In Every desire fulfilled we experience glimpses of it. In deep sleep we do.... Study and reflection makes it clear to us and then conviction arises to seek it as the Goal of Life.

VK : Thank you Swamiji

SS : Very fact that snake is means rope is. Movie is means screen is. Dreamer is means waker is. Just that We are seeking it in the opposite direction and in contrary ways.  A change of vision changes everything.

Su : I guess it starts with acknowledging and building an awareness that the snake is actually the rope (though we can't see or comprehend it now). That may probably help us slowly shift perceptive.... am I right.

Because right now as I try to intellectually distinguish, clarify and slot real,  unreal and illusion.... it is all so fused that it's getting to be confusing....

SS : Vivek(discrimination) helps here and satsang gives us vivek as the first quality needed for vedanta

NG : Still not clear on the unreal part😳. When I am experiencing something (differences in relationships/ happiness from family) or perceiving something (horns on a man's head) at best I can conclude that its not real since its not permanent.  As long as I am experiencing/ perceiving it, its an illusion. Only when understanding comes that these are not possible or that these are non existent I can conclude its unreal. So does that mean unreal is first experienced as illusion?

Su : I am also not clear about the difference between illusion and unreal

An : I feel it's your perception! It's as real, unreal or illusionary as you see it.
I call it transient reality. It's very real when you are in the middle of it. But it passes away.

Su : I mean I understood the difference between unreal and illusion as a concept  .....I think 😟
But when translated in daily life I am unable tell the difference..

SS : There are two aspects about unreal: 1. unreal is non-existent. So it cannot be experienced at all. One can never see the son of a barren woman or horns on the head of a man. 2. If it all it is experienced, it is not experience of unreal but an illusion. This applies to the how we feel we are different from the world. Vedanta says REAL or Brahman alone is. World is not there. But we experience it. Hence it is an illusion because by definition illusion means what is not there but just appears. Like snake on rope or mirage in desert etc.

Su : So then everything we experience is illusion... unreal does not figure at all.

Sorry to keep going at it....

SS : Yes sunitha. Everything is an illusion.

Su : Ok..

SS : But we must understand that just because we cannot experience the world as unreal and brahman as real, it is said world is illusion. By saying so, we are not saying world exists.

By saying snake is an illusion it does not mean snake exists.

Su : Got that Swamiji... thanks

SS : Its only to make us question the reality we have given to snake and enquire into the rope n be free on knowing the rope.

From rope standpoint snake is unreal. From our standpoint snake is an illusion.

Su : Oh... it is so much more clear now.. Thanks

SS : Please understand one more point : we must not be holding on to our assumptions and attachments  and bring vedanta down to that level to help solve our stress n worries in the name of practicality. That approach is a relief based symptomatic treatment because problems recur in different forms. Second approach is to lift ourselves to the higher vision of vedanta and dissolve the problem making entity. That is the cure based approach.

Perception of real does not differ from people to people. Perception of illusion does. So the relative reality or transient reality is actually illusion. Reality can never be distorted or appear differently to different people.

NP : Yeah Swamiji what u said earlier, is a mistake I do.

SS : All of us do that neelima.

NP : But it does help in making our illusory problems less. I think that is why we r here. Because even on the path one keeps getting better and inspires us to keep on the path even if r don't understand the goal.

JV : Everything appears to be fimagination once the moment has passed. However, it  feels very real now. E.g joy and sorrow. Pain and happiness. Wonder what is it like to actually know real and be real?

SS : Its like waking up from the dream. Its a different state of consciousness - the state of a jivanmukta, jignesh. Geeta says such a person is awake to Truth and asleep to the world. We are awake to the world and asleep to the Truth. Geeta Chapter 2 verse 69.
JV : Its funny how Everything that i feel, perceive and experience binds me from it even though I know that it is me alone. All of it only tries to remind me the world is real. How do I drop it? Do I need to put in effort? How can one wake up from the sleep? When awake, its easy. However, in the dream there is no awareness of the waking?I guess that's where the third statement surrender comes in to picture.Though not too sure how.

SS : Dream example limitation is we wake up without effort to realize illusoriness of dream. Here in life it cant happen that way. Study reflection help to increase discrimination n detachment leading to surrender.  Thats the way to drop.