Upadesh Saar : Verse 2 (Day 1)

VS: Hari Om

No class?

DM: Hariom

Going to a friends house to learn to bake

I dnt hv class every day

Oh I m so sorry

VS: :)

DM: So funny

N guess wat I was thinking of u n saw ur chat. So quickly replied. Sorry to all..

VS: Baking continues in the head

NP: No problem Deepa, as long As you send what you baked to everyone on the group

DM: Ha ha..

I'll send a photo.

But I wana share one thing. .

I was contemplating whether to use maida or wheat..maida makes cakes fluffy bt unhealthy wheat very healthy. . N wen I read the morning thought about garbage in garbage out I got my answer

NP: See Vedanta has a solution even for baking !!!

DM: :) :)

Yes for everything. .

Sometimes I choose to ignore; thats a different thing..

N the fact that I get my answers by applying it in my daily life..I m propelled to know more n apply n see how it helps me n thru me others..

SS: Summary of verse 1:

1. 1. By HIS command we get the results. Actions are not supreme. Actions are inert.
2. 2. Have faith in the existence of Ishwara and build a relationship with HIM.
   Visitor to master: have you seen God?
   Master: have you seen anything other than God?
3. Ishwara created the jiva and jagat as well as the laws that govern both. She does not control our individual thoughts and actions. As we sow, so we reap
4. Study the scriptures to know the laws. Daily 15min atleast.
5. The actions, the results, the laws, the jiva or doer of actions- none of these can do anything on their own. They depend on Ishwara who alone is supreme. Surrender to her.
6. Choose a form of the Lord that is dearest to you and love the Lord through that form. 10min atleast.
7. Karma = action done with BMI + intention + doership. Purpose of karma is to integrate BMI, make the intentions pure and selfless and reduce self-importance or doership.
8. As results come by HIS Grace learn to accept them as HIS prasad.
   Insistence+resistance  = sorrow.
   Acceptance + Independence = Happiness.

Verse no.2: in the vast ocean of actions, impermanent result is the cause of downfall and is a barrier to progress.

In the world action and temporary results are the cause of great achievements. Why is it said here that they are like an ocean and cause of downfall?

NG: Results lead to disturbances/ turbulence in the mind and re-inforces the ego. A favourable result leads to elation and then craving for more. And unfavourable result leads to dejection and depression. Then the mind is not available for seeking the permanent.

SS: Right. But is elation and depression not natural? What should be our response to the results if not these?
 GP: We know through our own first-hand experience that even after we achieve our goals, we aspire for more and we plunge into action all over again. It is endless and our lifetime seems inadequate to achieve everything that we would ideally like to. Its an ever-expanding ocean and it only keeps sucking us deeper and deeper into this endless pursuit of the fleeting and the temporary.

This is why it is compared to an ocean, and getting trapped in this ocean does not leave us any bandwidth for spiritual sadhana and progress.

 Su: Elation and depression are natural when we go about seeking pleasure the way we do.  But we dont realise that it's a bottomless pit. We keep looking for the next thing that will make is more happy than the previous one. 

Wont the response largely depend on the attitude with which we go after what we seek.

SS: Very true GPji. Can i have this view and still pursue my goals with enthusiasm and be successful? Is it not that escapists or unsuccessful people think this way?
 Su: if Iam convinced I want permanent happiness but have to live in this transactional world,  I will have a utility oriented approach to things around me. Where I don't get attached to them yet use them when needed.

Where I don't indulge in things when I know they may put me in cycle of desire gratification.  Or atleast be mindful when Iam doing it.

SS: So if i am successful, i should not rejoice?
 NP: When I identify myself with the result, whatever it might be, like I have achieved it or I have failed... Then the downfall arises.

If I surrender my actions and thereby the outcome to The Lord, it is easier. The mind is calmer

And one can progress on the spiritual path

 SR: Actions done with a strong sense of doership & attachment to results make us a puppet taking us from one extreme to another. We need to set goals, pursue enthusiastically. Do our best & accept whatever the results in a balanced way. Rejoice good ones but not go to extreme elation.

AND not extreme dejection for the next bad results

SS: Whats the difference between rejoicing and elation? If i have balance, will it not hold me back from enjoying thoroughly?

SR: Balance helps me remember its temporary..all an illusion after all. Enjoy what its worth with the realization its not permanent
 NG: Enjoy fully but understand the limitations of achievements/ acquisitions.  If we understand that we are actually seeking permanent happiness in all our actions which will not be available because of a material achievement or acquisition then we can fully enjoy the achievement but continue focus on the highest goal

At a gross level - aspire for the bigger car but do not expect it to give lasting happiness. Since it does not have the capacity to do so

VS: Swamiji to your earlier question.. our pursuit of actions for temporary results is endless. That's why it is an ocean.  Be it a great achievement or loss. There's bound to be waves of over-excitement or sorrow.  in either case the mind gets carried away by it. Thus never poised... and permanent happiness needs an equipoised mind. thus Temporary pursuits never takes us to that higher state but lower like a whirlpool.

SS: (thumbs up) to everyone who expressed their views for the clarity.

VS: What is enjoyment is a question here. even here enjoyment is temporary.  I want to be in a state where I enjoy always. I don't need a reason to enjoy and be happy.

‎KG: Swamiji, I think the context of the sloka is a Jiva for whom the cycle of samsara is continuous or endless. Ocean is a good example 2 simulate vastness. Since actions lead 2 more actions. (Only intelligent actions can help slow/stop the cycle. Where rejoicing with out elating ego is seen...).

GP: To answer your question swamiji, it is possible to have this view and still pursue my goals enthusiastically. It requires that shift in attitude, which you discussed earlier. In fact, our wisdom is in understanding this in our lives and using our pursuits also

VS: Swamiji I still have a doubt on the earlier portion can I ask

GP: Our material pursuits also to progress spiritually by developing this outlook and attitude in all our achievements.
 VS: Bhaiya... how to develop this enthusiasm... I am so used to be inspired by a material goal.

Now that I know these materialistic goals are not going to give me eternal happiness

But only lead me to a downfall

GP: Isn't it then like the 2 wings of a plane (our material and spiritual wings) which help us soar? So we enjoy our material achievements too and use them at the same time for our spiritual evolution. The regular sadhana and satsang helps me stay grounded in this outlook towards life. I constantly and keenly keep checking to make sure I am progressing on my spiritual path.
Vinod, I think the way to look at this is that the material achievements lead to our downfall if we get blinded by them and keep chasing them looking for permanent happiness in them.

But the same material pursuits can actually help us grow spiritually too, if we have this right perspective and use these material pursuits and achievements lifting ourselves. I believe that is possible.

There are so many successful people in our mission who are great role models for us in this regard.

VS: Thinking...

SS: Practice of the day: go through all experiences with the attitude - even this will pass...  Keep the mind in balance yet experience life fully.

VS: Thanks a lot bhaiya...😊... I need to contemplate more

SS: Last verse of the geeta furthers the point about the 2 wings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vQw0mmcU64. Watch this video of Poojya Gurudev
 VS: Ok Swamiji

I am thinking every action needs a force. For that the result should be luring enough to create that urgency and force.

I believe as bhaiya said this will come with Satsang and Sadhana. .

SS: Serving others, inspiration of a higher ideal, purity of mind are various ways to invoke the force and work without being attached to the result
 SM: "Football World Cup Special"

Be a player who runs for the Goal & not a referee who looks for the Fault..!!

VS: sorry I couldn't resist my question.  On one hand verse says action is inert and not greater.  All fruits are given by the Lord himself(since he is the doer)... then how does the logic hold good... As you sow so you reap.
 GP: It holds good. If you sow a mango the lord will give you mangoes. We perform the action based on our desires and aspirations. The fruits of our actions come to us because of the lord.

But we say these actions are inert because these actions will not give us the permanent happiness that we seek. These actions only give us results that are limited and temporary in nature.

VS: Which means there is some contribution of the action... why then the term inert

GP: Ishwara is not the doer of our individual thoughts and actions.
 SS: Action is called inert because:

A. A sentient doer is required for it. It cannot happen on its own.

B. its not capable of giving results on its own. If it was, then doers are not necessary

C. The results of action are not governed by action but by laws which affect action, doer and results.

Contribution of action is not denied by the verse. It negates the supremacy which we give to actions and in the process we start defining ourselves based on actions and also we forget the Lord totally from whom we get the power to act

We think our work defines our worth. Vedanta says you are worthy no matter what work you do

Knowing this and being secure one can bring out the best in one's actions because the stress of proving myself, getting applause and being successful to feel happy is not there

AV: Beautiful, Swamiji....a key that opens up and exposes the load that we carry unnecessarily.....
 VS: Sorry again 😖

Ishwara is not the doer of our individual thoughts and actions.

AND

A sentient doer is required

sound complicated...

SS: Vinod. Its simple. You are the sentient doer deriving power from ishwara to think feel and act.
 VS: Sorry contradictory

I'm different from Ishwara?

 GP: The waker is not the doer of the actions performed by the dreamer. But the waker is needed without which the dreamer cannot exist, nor can do actions.

You're as different from ishwara as the dreamer is from the waker.

 VS: Or is the word inert used as a hyperbole here

To show exaggeration

Just to give importance to the governing body

 GP: Or the individual creature in the tapestry is different from the cloth on which the whole scenery has been woven.

Our body is inert without the life-principle shining through it

SS: If u identify from body level u r different from ishwara and think you are doer. From Self standpoint you and ishwara are one.

VS: So Aham Brahmasmi is not Aham Ishwarasmi
Got it Swamiji...
 SS: Action needs either a jeeva or i to be karta or ishwara to be karta. Choice is who do we think is karta. If im karta then im bound. If i surrender kartabhav and say it happens through his grace im liberated

Obviously not

How can wave be ocean?

Water in wave and ocean is the same though. Water is brahman. Ocean is ishwara. Wave is jeev

VS: Right

SS: Go back to definitions and basics when in doubt and spend some time in thinking.
 ‎JV: Water alone is real, rest are all concepts.

This sounds like software. It is just concepts.

There is no physical reality.

Yet we believe its real and interact with it. The whole world interacts with it. Even inert objects.

SS: 0 and 1 is real in computers. Rest all are appearances of these.

GP: Superb comparison swamiji! 😊

VS: Thanks a lot Swamiji and everyone