SS: Exercise for the day: while acting, make the best choice. When results come let there be choiceless acceptance.
For acting He gave us the intellect to make the best choice and He gave us scriptures for the knowledge to make the best choice and fine-tune the choice-making equipment. He does not interfere in our actions. Like petrol does not interfere in driving. That's driver's choice. So lets study the scriptures and make the best choice.
Since results come by HIS Grace let us accept them as His Prasad. Once we accept the results the mind is calm and we can analyze the results or our actions and make any improvements needed in the future course of action.
These were the 5 questions arising from verse 1.
1. Does the Lord exist?
2. Why does result come by His command? Does the Lord control everything?
3. What is karma?
4. Why is it not supreme if karma gives karmaphala and all development is because of that?
5. Why is karma called inert?
First two we have dealt with. We go to the third one.
What is Karma?
SD: Karma is the action and work I do. I have the freedom to perform good or bad actions. My future depends on my actions of today.
SM: Swamiji, in the ultra competitive world, actions will definitely be guided by the level of results we wish to achieve
Ie, the goal set will determine the level of work we have to put in.
The desired result HAS to be achieved and only if we are fired up to achieve this result, can be put in that level of result. I don't think such a detachment from result will work in practice.
Put in that level of effort...I mean
The big efforts thus put in will bring results. If we fail, should feel so bad that next time we definitely achieve it! Otherwise, there is a risk of slipping to mediocrity and just pushing along, accepting whatever comes along the way.
SS: Let the joy of work be the driving force. Results no doubt have to be kept in mind so that the required effort we can put. But getting anxious about results hampers performance. Detachment is not indifference. It is conserving energy and channelizing it for better performance which will ensure results. Also we have to understand that results are governed by many factors and not just our efforts. So we may not get desired results. Feeling bad is only going to waste my energy. Let me analyse what more i could do and learn the lesson.
Vedanta does not encourage mediocrity. It says choose your swadharma, keep a very high goal and focus on the action, enjoying every moment of your performance and accept the results as they come. This is economics of thought says Poojya Gurudev.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_TTnN2icTm8
Watch this video of Gurudev about goal-setting
Google on detachment and corporate life and you will see many people living it and applying it very effectively
Ja: One of Gurudev's quote give away the maximum and live with the minimum
SS: Karma includes only actions? Are thinking and feeling also karma or they are not?
Ja: Thinking including as what we think we are
SS: No. What we think every moment
Ja: Thought s are very powerful
Every moment thinking we create the world we are living in
SS: Is it karma?
Not doing anything but just thinking or feeling is it karma?
GP: I act in the world of oet through my bmi prompted by my vasana-induced desires. So all physical actions, mental feelings and intellectual thoughts would be karma.
Ja: It becomes as if we mentally give good or bad it comes to us
GP: And all these actions, feelings and thoughts create impressions within us which prompt us into further action. And the cyclical aspect of karma.
Ja: Agree
So even a small negative thought is harmful
SS: If i kick someone in sleep is it karma?
Ja: In a different way we are later made to see things in a different way
shall be given 2 kicks in a different way but we are bound to receive
KG: Yes, in the context of dream
Ja: Meaning some times what appears bad is actually for our good but till the understanding happens
SS: I may be in dream or deep sleep but if i kick my neighbour of my waking state, is it karma?
KG: Yes,
Unconscious actions r also karma.
SS: Why?
KG: Since the waking world has got affected
SS: So many living being are destroyed when i walk talk etc. Its added to my karma?
KG: Karma - actions - results.
Why not
Ja: Yes
SS: So karma is defined then as whatever affects the world?
KG: World Including me
SS: If i only think and waking world has not got affected then its not karma?
Ja: We donot have a right to kill any living being and even if we behave badly towards non livibg it reacts
KG: In thinking aren't we affecting the world...
SS: So the actions of jivanmukta are also karma because he is affecting the world. How can he be free from karma then?
KG: Thinking...
Ja: By being detached and no thinking
NG: I think there is a link of intent to karma / its effects. Not sure if an action done without some egoistic intent is karma
SS: On target. Thats the point to think of Nirupamaji.
SD: But how do we know that as the minute we start thinking of it ego comes into play at some level
KG: So whatever actions has a result affecting me is Karma? Thought included...
SS: True swapna but we all have experienced in some degree the power of egoless action when we act in love for the beloved
SD: A jivanmukta knows his true nature. so isn't he free from karma. this present birth he has to live out his accumulated karma but he does with full awareness
SS: Karma = action done by BMI + Intention + doership
SD: so we have to now increase the degree
SS: In sleep kicking or destruction of beings unknowingly in our daily acts there is no intention and no doership. Hence it is not karma
SD: it is the receivers karma :D
SS: U can say so
KG: Or Prarabdha?
SS: Same thing it is
KG: Ok
SD: So for every action on BMI level there is a reaction. So is constant awareness and doing our best and accepting whatever results we get with an attitude of this is for the best and for my growth the solution
NG: So only in the highest state there is no karma. At all other levels we are compelled to act and what we can do is make it as selfless and free from personal likes and dislikes as possible.
SS: Karma is called inert because it depends on karta(doer) and also for results it depends on the world and ishwara. Hence actions are not supreme. The ascetics thought their actions are supreme. Lord Shiva makes them aware that actions are inert by themselves and cannot give us anything. Intentions determine the quality and performance. Doer of the action determines to whom the karmaphala comes. Doer is also limited jeeva.
SS: Yes swapna
True nirupamaji
NG: Going beyond 'insistence' on a specific outcome of our action is a way to reduce our ego/ doership
SS: If we understand karma definition then
1. we will tune up the BMI for best choices
2. Make our intentions selfless and single-pointed
3. Reduce doership through surrender.
This is the larger purpose of karma. In every act of mine i can ask myself these questions- am i getting integrated? Am i becoming selfless? Is doership or selfimportance reducing?
When we dont know the above we just do actions for results and intentions are selfish and results boost our ego through excitement or disappointment. We get bound by karma and feel stressed and exhausted
Yes going beyond insistence is a sure way to reduce ego
SD: True. Letting go is the most difficult thing to do
SS: I have made two formulas as a memory aid.
Insistence + Resistance = Sorrow.
Acceptance + Independence = Happiness
SD: That's a lovely way to remember Swamiji. Thank you🙏
Su: So can we say that The path of karma is a step towards the path of knowledge, which helps us purify our equipments so that they are ready to receive the subtle knowledge.
SS: Yes sunitha.
VS: Karma is something I have to do consciously or unconsciously as long as I am in this world. Today is the fruit of my past Karma. Tomorrow will be due to my present karma and will have some component of my past Karma. Karma is Manasa(thought), vachasa(speech), karmana(action). Even a thought can do good or harm others. carelessness also falls under Karma. Even when I have a negative thoughts which is not intentionally harming... but I am sending those vibes around n causing harm. E.g. if I am off mood... the mood spreads around.
For me doing my action perfectly gives me happiness.
This is what I think
Due to my incomplete action no one should suffer
Whether I am becoming selfless or self importance reducing is definitely a confusion
If someone is not satisfied by my actions... it gives me sorrow
So I keep improving my actions
but Nirupama akka n Swamiji...I feel there is Karma and Karmaphala as long as there is bmi even at higher levels. The only difference is that they dont affect me.
"Highest state"
NG: Karma as per defn given by Swamiji earlier is dependant on karta. If there is no karta there is no karma.
SD: But karta only on the body level. Your accumulated karma is still carried forward by the soul. Hope I not confused
So even when I give up this body my karma is still there even though ' I' the karta ceases to exist
SS: Lets stick to understanding karma from our standpoint. To understand Jivanmukta's karma we still need time
Yes karma continues even when body is dropped because kartaa bhav is there still. Only one equipment of karma i.e body is dropped. Mind and intellect, vasanas and ego(karta) are still there
SD: Swamiji going a little off track here. During the course of this discussion, there are many times when a lil voice in my head goes " yay!! you have understood" Isn't that also the ego speaking?
SS: It is the sattvik joy of knowledge. Surrender it saying it has happened by HIS grace.
VS: Ok Swamiji
But according to this definition. .
Karma = action done by BMI + Intention + doership
SD: Ok
VS: If there is no doership.... there is no karma or Karmaphala
SS: Yes
VS: That's y we should work with total surrender... integrating bmi
Where does carelessness come here?lack of integration of BMI?
Because I don't see n intention
Tongue slip.. leg slip...
Or is it that the intention itself is not clear
SS: Carelessness is tamasic intention. Not wanting to do something properly n doing it with chalta hai attitude is also intention.
VS: Ok Swamiji... thanks
Su: Tuning of BMI requires a lot of vigilance and alertness at all three levels . Thus in the process one will automatically become conscious of what one is doing. Why one is doing it.
As per me BMI integration needs a lot of reflection and Sadhana. It's very tough but as Gurudev would say it pays a high dividend.
VS: I agree... but I may sound lazy... if bmi is integrated always... am I not in control of my senses... and as long as they are not integrated... our actions will never be perfect...
So the imperfection will apply to my fruits... n I'll never b satisfied. So its better to surrender n pray that my actions should always be perfect
No one can digress like me 😖
NP: I think that is also surrender Vinod.
Swamiji, I am able to have integrity between body mind and intellect when it comes to my work, to an extent. But when it comes to family, very often there is a conflict between all three. I guess that's why I'm quite stressed most of the time. That means I am accumulating vasanas?
SS: Attachments cause agitation and we feel bound. Yes we do collect rajasic and tamasic vasanas in such situations
VS: Swamiji the BMI integration and surrender helped a lot today. I didn't find myself cribbing today because I always had something to do
VS: Of course it needed regular reminders.
KG: Swamiji and others too. Not sure if we already answered this in some form. Can stress or mental agony in general be a result of Karma. Can suffering ever be someone's Prarabdha. Or is it that the situations around arise due to result of past actions and now u choose 2 either be let down by it or still be vigilant and sustain the Time without getting bowled out. If later is the case, which I feel, then every situation becomes in some way an opportunity 2 lead 2 the goal i.e. preparation.
RP: Prarabdha or karma phala comes in the form of circumstances or paristhithi. And circumstances may be good or bad. However your mental status and stress are as per your attachment and mental makeup. Don't we find ourselves stressed out even in best of circumstances? And find people smiling even in adverse situations.
KG: Yup
For acting He gave us the intellect to make the best choice and He gave us scriptures for the knowledge to make the best choice and fine-tune the choice-making equipment. He does not interfere in our actions. Like petrol does not interfere in driving. That's driver's choice. So lets study the scriptures and make the best choice.
Since results come by HIS Grace let us accept them as His Prasad. Once we accept the results the mind is calm and we can analyze the results or our actions and make any improvements needed in the future course of action.
These were the 5 questions arising from verse 1.
1. Does the Lord exist?
2. Why does result come by His command? Does the Lord control everything?
3. What is karma?
4. Why is it not supreme if karma gives karmaphala and all development is because of that?
5. Why is karma called inert?
First two we have dealt with. We go to the third one.
What is Karma?
SD: Karma is the action and work I do. I have the freedom to perform good or bad actions. My future depends on my actions of today.
SM: Swamiji, in the ultra competitive world, actions will definitely be guided by the level of results we wish to achieve
Ie, the goal set will determine the level of work we have to put in.
The desired result HAS to be achieved and only if we are fired up to achieve this result, can be put in that level of result. I don't think such a detachment from result will work in practice.
Put in that level of effort...I mean
The big efforts thus put in will bring results. If we fail, should feel so bad that next time we definitely achieve it! Otherwise, there is a risk of slipping to mediocrity and just pushing along, accepting whatever comes along the way.
SS: Let the joy of work be the driving force. Results no doubt have to be kept in mind so that the required effort we can put. But getting anxious about results hampers performance. Detachment is not indifference. It is conserving energy and channelizing it for better performance which will ensure results. Also we have to understand that results are governed by many factors and not just our efforts. So we may not get desired results. Feeling bad is only going to waste my energy. Let me analyse what more i could do and learn the lesson.
Vedanta does not encourage mediocrity. It says choose your swadharma, keep a very high goal and focus on the action, enjoying every moment of your performance and accept the results as they come. This is economics of thought says Poojya Gurudev.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_TTnN2icTm8
Watch this video of Gurudev about goal-setting
Google on detachment and corporate life and you will see many people living it and applying it very effectively
Ja: One of Gurudev's quote give away the maximum and live with the minimum
SS: Karma includes only actions? Are thinking and feeling also karma or they are not?
Ja: Thinking including as what we think we are
SS: No. What we think every moment
Ja: Thought s are very powerful
Every moment thinking we create the world we are living in
SS: Is it karma?
Not doing anything but just thinking or feeling is it karma?
GP: I act in the world of oet through my bmi prompted by my vasana-induced desires. So all physical actions, mental feelings and intellectual thoughts would be karma.
Ja: It becomes as if we mentally give good or bad it comes to us
GP: And all these actions, feelings and thoughts create impressions within us which prompt us into further action. And the cyclical aspect of karma.
Ja: Agree
So even a small negative thought is harmful
SS: If i kick someone in sleep is it karma?
Ja: In a different way we are later made to see things in a different way
shall be given 2 kicks in a different way but we are bound to receive
KG: Yes, in the context of dream
Ja: Meaning some times what appears bad is actually for our good but till the understanding happens
SS: I may be in dream or deep sleep but if i kick my neighbour of my waking state, is it karma?
KG: Yes,
Unconscious actions r also karma.
SS: Why?
KG: Since the waking world has got affected
SS: So many living being are destroyed when i walk talk etc. Its added to my karma?
KG: Karma - actions - results.
Why not
Ja: Yes
SS: So karma is defined then as whatever affects the world?
KG: World Including me
SS: If i only think and waking world has not got affected then its not karma?
Ja: We donot have a right to kill any living being and even if we behave badly towards non livibg it reacts
KG: In thinking aren't we affecting the world...
SS: So the actions of jivanmukta are also karma because he is affecting the world. How can he be free from karma then?
KG: Thinking...
Ja: By being detached and no thinking
NG: I think there is a link of intent to karma / its effects. Not sure if an action done without some egoistic intent is karma
SS: On target. Thats the point to think of Nirupamaji.
SD: But how do we know that as the minute we start thinking of it ego comes into play at some level
KG: So whatever actions has a result affecting me is Karma? Thought included...
SS: True swapna but we all have experienced in some degree the power of egoless action when we act in love for the beloved
SD: A jivanmukta knows his true nature. so isn't he free from karma. this present birth he has to live out his accumulated karma but he does with full awareness
SS: Karma = action done by BMI + Intention + doership
SD: so we have to now increase the degree
SS: In sleep kicking or destruction of beings unknowingly in our daily acts there is no intention and no doership. Hence it is not karma
SD: it is the receivers karma :D
SS: U can say so
KG: Or Prarabdha?
SS: Same thing it is
KG: Ok
SD: So for every action on BMI level there is a reaction. So is constant awareness and doing our best and accepting whatever results we get with an attitude of this is for the best and for my growth the solution
NG: So only in the highest state there is no karma. At all other levels we are compelled to act and what we can do is make it as selfless and free from personal likes and dislikes as possible.
SS: Karma is called inert because it depends on karta(doer) and also for results it depends on the world and ishwara. Hence actions are not supreme. The ascetics thought their actions are supreme. Lord Shiva makes them aware that actions are inert by themselves and cannot give us anything. Intentions determine the quality and performance. Doer of the action determines to whom the karmaphala comes. Doer is also limited jeeva.
SS: Yes swapna
True nirupamaji
NG: Going beyond 'insistence' on a specific outcome of our action is a way to reduce our ego/ doership
SS: If we understand karma definition then
1. we will tune up the BMI for best choices
2. Make our intentions selfless and single-pointed
3. Reduce doership through surrender.
This is the larger purpose of karma. In every act of mine i can ask myself these questions- am i getting integrated? Am i becoming selfless? Is doership or selfimportance reducing?
When we dont know the above we just do actions for results and intentions are selfish and results boost our ego through excitement or disappointment. We get bound by karma and feel stressed and exhausted
Yes going beyond insistence is a sure way to reduce ego
SD: True. Letting go is the most difficult thing to do
SS: I have made two formulas as a memory aid.
Insistence + Resistance = Sorrow.
Acceptance + Independence = Happiness
SD: That's a lovely way to remember Swamiji. Thank you🙏
Su: So can we say that The path of karma is a step towards the path of knowledge, which helps us purify our equipments so that they are ready to receive the subtle knowledge.
SS: Yes sunitha.
VS: Karma is something I have to do consciously or unconsciously as long as I am in this world. Today is the fruit of my past Karma. Tomorrow will be due to my present karma and will have some component of my past Karma. Karma is Manasa(thought), vachasa(speech), karmana(action). Even a thought can do good or harm others. carelessness also falls under Karma. Even when I have a negative thoughts which is not intentionally harming... but I am sending those vibes around n causing harm. E.g. if I am off mood... the mood spreads around.
For me doing my action perfectly gives me happiness.
This is what I think
Due to my incomplete action no one should suffer
Whether I am becoming selfless or self importance reducing is definitely a confusion
If someone is not satisfied by my actions... it gives me sorrow
So I keep improving my actions
but Nirupama akka n Swamiji...I feel there is Karma and Karmaphala as long as there is bmi even at higher levels. The only difference is that they dont affect me.
"Highest state"
NG: Karma as per defn given by Swamiji earlier is dependant on karta. If there is no karta there is no karma.
SD: But karta only on the body level. Your accumulated karma is still carried forward by the soul. Hope I not confused
So even when I give up this body my karma is still there even though ' I' the karta ceases to exist
SS: Lets stick to understanding karma from our standpoint. To understand Jivanmukta's karma we still need time
Yes karma continues even when body is dropped because kartaa bhav is there still. Only one equipment of karma i.e body is dropped. Mind and intellect, vasanas and ego(karta) are still there
SD: Swamiji going a little off track here. During the course of this discussion, there are many times when a lil voice in my head goes " yay!! you have understood" Isn't that also the ego speaking?
SS: It is the sattvik joy of knowledge. Surrender it saying it has happened by HIS grace.
VS: Ok Swamiji
But according to this definition. .
Karma = action done by BMI + Intention + doership
SD: Ok
VS: If there is no doership.... there is no karma or Karmaphala
SS: Yes
VS: That's y we should work with total surrender... integrating bmi
Where does carelessness come here?lack of integration of BMI?
Because I don't see n intention
Tongue slip.. leg slip...
Or is it that the intention itself is not clear
SS: Carelessness is tamasic intention. Not wanting to do something properly n doing it with chalta hai attitude is also intention.
VS: Ok Swamiji... thanks
Su: Tuning of BMI requires a lot of vigilance and alertness at all three levels . Thus in the process one will automatically become conscious of what one is doing. Why one is doing it.
As per me BMI integration needs a lot of reflection and Sadhana. It's very tough but as Gurudev would say it pays a high dividend.
VS: I agree... but I may sound lazy... if bmi is integrated always... am I not in control of my senses... and as long as they are not integrated... our actions will never be perfect...
So the imperfection will apply to my fruits... n I'll never b satisfied. So its better to surrender n pray that my actions should always be perfect
No one can digress like me 😖
NP: I think that is also surrender Vinod.
Swamiji, I am able to have integrity between body mind and intellect when it comes to my work, to an extent. But when it comes to family, very often there is a conflict between all three. I guess that's why I'm quite stressed most of the time. That means I am accumulating vasanas?
SS: Attachments cause agitation and we feel bound. Yes we do collect rajasic and tamasic vasanas in such situations
VS: Swamiji the BMI integration and surrender helped a lot today. I didn't find myself cribbing today because I always had something to do
VS: Of course it needed regular reminders.
KG: Swamiji and others too. Not sure if we already answered this in some form. Can stress or mental agony in general be a result of Karma. Can suffering ever be someone's Prarabdha. Or is it that the situations around arise due to result of past actions and now u choose 2 either be let down by it or still be vigilant and sustain the Time without getting bowled out. If later is the case, which I feel, then every situation becomes in some way an opportunity 2 lead 2 the goal i.e. preparation.
RP: Prarabdha or karma phala comes in the form of circumstances or paristhithi. And circumstances may be good or bad. However your mental status and stress are as per your attachment and mental makeup. Don't we find ourselves stressed out even in best of circumstances? And find people smiling even in adverse situations.
KG: Yup
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