SS: We can continue our discussion of God
NP: Sorry Swamiji couldn't join the earlier discussion. But from what u have written I understand illusion starts at the ishwara level ?
SS: Right now we are trying to understand the existence of the Lord and His Nature. Dont bring illusion part into this. We will deal with it later
VS: Hari Om. 1 q Swamiji
I can imagine him as the life principle. I can still believe Ishwara... but Brahman
But as someone who has no properties and does nothing?
SS: What does life principle mean apart from Brahman? If u imagine life principle to be Prana then thats not God.
VS: But you said Ishwara is the Karta
He along with Maya/Prakruti creates this Sansaric world
SS: Prana is not ishwara. Its one of the aspects necessary for sustenance and consists of the physiological systems like circulation digestion etc.
Life principle, Brahman, Consciousness mean the same
VS: Is it like electricity by itself does not do anything. But expresses through equipments?
Can we then call Brahman as potential energy
SS: Electricity example is fine. Potential energy is not. Energy is inert and changes forms. Brahman is consciousness and changeless
Ishwara is easier to relate than Brahman. The creator, compassionate, all knowing, all powerful etc are His attributes
When we surrender the ego completely we go beyond creature, creator and creation to realize Brahman. So we should attempt that instead of trying to conceptualise Brahman
To surrender the ego i must know that there is a creator who governs the creation through laws and systems and is all powerful yet unconditionally loving. He alone manifests as the creation and every creature. So let me tune-up with HIM and through devotion let me surrender.
Till the concept of Ishwara and my relationship is not clear to us we will remain confused about God and surrender does not happen. Thats when vedanta seems to be only intellectual gymnastics.
Su: Yes Swamiji, I thought I was clear about ishwara, since you asked the question Iam confused
VS: How can energy come from something inert. Sorry I'm lost for words.
But as you said it is beyond the intellect... then its not a valid question though
Su: Let me summarize what I understood.
Brahman uses Maya to create. When Brahman and Maya come together, the out come is Ishwara, who has the power to create (using Maya ). This ishwara then takes various forms for specific reasons.
NP: Swamiji at the moment we are devoted only to the form as long as we identify with the bmi right?
SS: Right
GP: The subtle difference between brahman (as the changeless, one without any duality and beyond time and space), maya (as brahman's power and tool), ishwara (as the outcome of brahman using the power of maya) and jagat (created, sustained and destroyed by ishwara), jeeva (part of jagat and the individual reflection of this life-principle in a bmi) and the ishta devatas and avataars.
This is understood and quite clear now.
It's almost like a domino effect and the whole creation seems to have unfolded.
SS: Thank u for the summary GPji. Will continue tomorrow
VS: Lovely summary GP bhaiya
Su: Thanks GP!!
GP: But the question is, what triggered this? Brahman is changeless and doesn't 'do' anything either. Is there a motivation or a purpose behind this creation?
And why, once the entire creation is manifested, does the jeeva have no inkling about this true nature?
These are questions we could discuss tomorrow.
NP: Sorry Swamiji couldn't join the earlier discussion. But from what u have written I understand illusion starts at the ishwara level ?
SS: Right now we are trying to understand the existence of the Lord and His Nature. Dont bring illusion part into this. We will deal with it later
VS: Hari Om. 1 q Swamiji
I can imagine him as the life principle. I can still believe Ishwara... but Brahman
But as someone who has no properties and does nothing?
SS: What does life principle mean apart from Brahman? If u imagine life principle to be Prana then thats not God.
VS: But you said Ishwara is the Karta
He along with Maya/Prakruti creates this Sansaric world
SS: Prana is not ishwara. Its one of the aspects necessary for sustenance and consists of the physiological systems like circulation digestion etc.
Life principle, Brahman, Consciousness mean the same
VS: Is it like electricity by itself does not do anything. But expresses through equipments?
Can we then call Brahman as potential energy
SS: Electricity example is fine. Potential energy is not. Energy is inert and changes forms. Brahman is consciousness and changeless
Ishwara is easier to relate than Brahman. The creator, compassionate, all knowing, all powerful etc are His attributes
When we surrender the ego completely we go beyond creature, creator and creation to realize Brahman. So we should attempt that instead of trying to conceptualise Brahman
To surrender the ego i must know that there is a creator who governs the creation through laws and systems and is all powerful yet unconditionally loving. He alone manifests as the creation and every creature. So let me tune-up with HIM and through devotion let me surrender.
Till the concept of Ishwara and my relationship is not clear to us we will remain confused about God and surrender does not happen. Thats when vedanta seems to be only intellectual gymnastics.
Su: Yes Swamiji, I thought I was clear about ishwara, since you asked the question Iam confused
VS: How can energy come from something inert. Sorry I'm lost for words.
But as you said it is beyond the intellect... then its not a valid question though
Su: Let me summarize what I understood.
Brahman uses Maya to create. When Brahman and Maya come together, the out come is Ishwara, who has the power to create (using Maya ). This ishwara then takes various forms for specific reasons.
NP: Swamiji at the moment we are devoted only to the form as long as we identify with the bmi right?
SS: Right
GP: The subtle difference between brahman (as the changeless, one without any duality and beyond time and space), maya (as brahman's power and tool), ishwara (as the outcome of brahman using the power of maya) and jagat (created, sustained and destroyed by ishwara), jeeva (part of jagat and the individual reflection of this life-principle in a bmi) and the ishta devatas and avataars.
This is understood and quite clear now.
It's almost like a domino effect and the whole creation seems to have unfolded.
SS: Thank u for the summary GPji. Will continue tomorrow
VS: Lovely summary GP bhaiya
Su: Thanks GP!!
GP: But the question is, what triggered this? Brahman is changeless and doesn't 'do' anything either. Is there a motivation or a purpose behind this creation?
And why, once the entire creation is manifested, does the jeeva have no inkling about this true nature?
These are questions we could discuss tomorrow.
No comments:
Post a Comment