RP: My take on thinking, reflection, contemplation with an example
Statement "Aham Brahmasmi"
Contemplation is where I transform from the Enquirer to the experiencer of those convictions....
RP: I think so. Reflection helps in intellectual appreciation and getting conviction. Reflection is like peeling of onion - in the light of the truth - layers of our own understanding get peeled - body is not I, mind is not I , this world is not real etc. Contemplation leads to actual experience of the truth. Like the Nirvana shatkam - line starts with I am not bmi etc and ends with childananda roopa shivoham. (This is what I think)
Su: So if that is contemplation, I think I understand the concept. But still confused about the process....
GP: I feel that contemplation is also a step before the actual experience. Once you are an experienced, there is no contemplation required.
Maybe 'reflection' is the phase between 'thinking' to conviction and clarity; and contemplation is the phase between this clarity to the 'experience'
RP: Agree it is a bit confusing. Actually we know reality is not in the realm of thoughts. So any level of thinking cannot lead us to direct experience. Thinking or reflection can lead us to I am not this this etc. In contemplation the thoughts eventually reduce and finally stop. "I am that" is then revealed. ( yea I already read the last page of the book - that's how I know this!!! - just guessing). Contemplation in daily usage "after contemplating a lot on the idea I can clearly "see" that this plan will definitely work"
VS: What if I am still trying to understand and I am blank. Is it thinking, reflection, contemplation or nothing
GP: If I'm trying to understand something, then it is reflection. I'm still on the path towards clarity.
It means I'm mentally grappling with an idea and I'm trying to reconcile it my my current view on that subject.
SS: Wonderful interactions on the topic by everyone.
Just to summarise: according to vedanta thinking is natural to the mind. It may be logical or illogical, structured or random, dull or bright etc.
Reflection or manan is to use scriptural logic to understand the nature of the Reality or world or Self. Yuktibhih anuchintanam is manan. It is to remove doubts and gain clarity and conviction. It can be done by oneself or through discussion with someone or a group or a lecture etc. Many ways are there for reflection.
Contemplation is called nididhyaasana. It is to remove contrary feeling that one has inspite of intellectual conviction. Vipareeta bhaavana is removed through contemplation. It is also the direct means to abide in the Reality by asserting that i am That. It is defined as adviteeya-vastuni sajaateeya-vritti-pravahaha. It is a natural consequence of reflection. No logic is used here. Words are used as pointers to lift the mind to the state indicated by the pointer and one lets go of words and pointers thereafter.
Eg. Manan would be to logically try and understand why i am not the bmi. Yet the feeling remains inspite of conviction that i am the body. Contemplation is to use pointers like chidananda rupah shivoham shivoham and drop the contrary feeling and abide in the state conveyed by chidananda rupah shivoham shivoham
JV: Shivoham, shivoham. My gratitude and pranam to swamiji for such clear and direct pointers.
NB: Its now so clear Swamiji
VS: Thanks Swamiji
Statement "Aham Brahmasmi"
- Thinking (thoughts could be )what a great statement, I should study more , this book is nice, don't know when I will get time, I should plan a time table etc.
- Reflection - if I am Brahman then I cannot be the body, nor the mind , but I feel I am this limited self...,what could be the reason, does it mean all this is fleeting? This means my values are incorrect....Etc.
- Contemplation - what's meant by Brahman - sat chit ananda. What is sat ? chit ?Who am I really? How do I experience all this? It is in the light of consciousness, I am sakshi etc.
Contemplation is where I transform from the Enquirer to the experiencer of those convictions....
RP: I think so. Reflection helps in intellectual appreciation and getting conviction. Reflection is like peeling of onion - in the light of the truth - layers of our own understanding get peeled - body is not I, mind is not I , this world is not real etc. Contemplation leads to actual experience of the truth. Like the Nirvana shatkam - line starts with I am not bmi etc and ends with childananda roopa shivoham. (This is what I think)
Su: So if that is contemplation, I think I understand the concept. But still confused about the process....
GP: I feel that contemplation is also a step before the actual experience. Once you are an experienced, there is no contemplation required.
Maybe 'reflection' is the phase between 'thinking' to conviction and clarity; and contemplation is the phase between this clarity to the 'experience'
RP: Agree it is a bit confusing. Actually we know reality is not in the realm of thoughts. So any level of thinking cannot lead us to direct experience. Thinking or reflection can lead us to I am not this this etc. In contemplation the thoughts eventually reduce and finally stop. "I am that" is then revealed. ( yea I already read the last page of the book - that's how I know this!!! - just guessing). Contemplation in daily usage "after contemplating a lot on the idea I can clearly "see" that this plan will definitely work"
VS: What if I am still trying to understand and I am blank. Is it thinking, reflection, contemplation or nothing
GP: If I'm trying to understand something, then it is reflection. I'm still on the path towards clarity.
It means I'm mentally grappling with an idea and I'm trying to reconcile it my my current view on that subject.
SS: Wonderful interactions on the topic by everyone.
Just to summarise: according to vedanta thinking is natural to the mind. It may be logical or illogical, structured or random, dull or bright etc.
Reflection or manan is to use scriptural logic to understand the nature of the Reality or world or Self. Yuktibhih anuchintanam is manan. It is to remove doubts and gain clarity and conviction. It can be done by oneself or through discussion with someone or a group or a lecture etc. Many ways are there for reflection.
Contemplation is called nididhyaasana. It is to remove contrary feeling that one has inspite of intellectual conviction. Vipareeta bhaavana is removed through contemplation. It is also the direct means to abide in the Reality by asserting that i am That. It is defined as adviteeya-vastuni sajaateeya-vritti-pravahaha. It is a natural consequence of reflection. No logic is used here. Words are used as pointers to lift the mind to the state indicated by the pointer and one lets go of words and pointers thereafter.
Eg. Manan would be to logically try and understand why i am not the bmi. Yet the feeling remains inspite of conviction that i am the body. Contemplation is to use pointers like chidananda rupah shivoham shivoham and drop the contrary feeling and abide in the state conveyed by chidananda rupah shivoham shivoham
JV: Shivoham, shivoham. My gratitude and pranam to swamiji for such clear and direct pointers.
NB: Its now so clear Swamiji
VS: Thanks Swamiji
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