SS: Hari om. Was busy with sadhana day programme of 3rd august so could not continue upadesha saar. Am back now. Someone wanted the summary of thinking, reflection and contemplation. I am reposting what i had sent.
Wonderful interactions on the topic by everyone. Just to summarise: according to vedanta thinking is natural to the mind. It may be logical or illogical, structured or random, dull or bright etc.
Reflection or manan is to use scriptural logic to understand the nature of the Reality or world or Self. Yuktibhih anuchintanam is manan. It is to remove doubts and gain clarity and conviction. It can be done by oneself or through discussion with someone or a group or a lecture etc. Many ways are there for reflection.
Contemplation is called nididhyaasana. It is to remove contrary feeling that one has inspite of intellectual conviction. Vipareeta bhaavana is removed through contemplation. It is also the direct means to abide in the Reality by asserting that i am That. It is defined as adviteeya-vastuni sajaateeya-vritti-pravahaha. It is a natural consequence of reflection. No logic is used here. Words are used as pointers to lift the mind to the state indicated by the pointer and one lets go of words and pointers thereafter.
Eg. Manan would be to logically try and understand why i am not the bmi. Yet the feeling remains inspite of conviction that i am the body. Contemplation is to use pointers like chidananda rupah shivoham shivoham and drop the contrary feeling and abide in the state conveyed by chidananda rupah shivoham shivoham
We move to the next verse?
Su: Yes Swamiji
SK: Pl do Swamiji.
NG: Yes Swamiji...have been missing this class
SS: Verse 5: Serving the world with the attitude of serving the Lord is (true) worship of the Lord who is the wielder of the eight-fold forms.
Jagata isha-dhi yukta sevanam
Ashta-murti-bhrd devapujanam.
This is Ramana Maharshi's definition of Pooja. Highest form of worship is this.
Many people conveniently think that they are practising this and no other spiritual sadhana is required. How do we know whether we are ready and practicing this or its a trick of the mind?
NG: If we are truly practicing this, there should be no insistence on type of work that we will perform and insistence on a particular result? We should be able to do our duty to the best of our ability and accept whatever result as prasad - whether we like it or not?
MN: Rightly said
That prasad-bhav should apply to every action in our life then only we can say we are living upto this
KG: It's a very lofty state to see and feel the entire world as Lord. One validation could be to check attachment to loved ones. Getting purified (chitta shuddhi or peace) by every and all acts (service) done in the world.
What is the eight-fold form mentioned here?
SR: To see the entire world as the Lord..umm! With loved ones, selfless serving- somewhat easier(attachment). But the same with others, ...even that 'snob' or 'cheat' or 'thankless'....the mere thought seems impossible to us, no?
NB: i think dat a feeling of humility cmes wid actions dedicated to d Lord..n as v advance in dis practice d sense of doership also dissolves..
V slowly learn to forgive n forget n start becomin detached n more accomodating in our daily lives..
SR: I think it is possible when we look beyond the object/person we are serving & simply focus on the right action with the right attitude to the best of our capacity. This practice over a period of time with constant introspection & cross checking can help us move to the next step where every action is dedicated to the lord.
NB: Hmm...it vl also bring about efficiency in our actions as v want to do best for d Lord
SK: Seeking the Lord through thought, word and deed...like Hanumanji ever at His service, giving our best always.
SS: What is important in this practice is our bhaav of bhakti and seva. Prasad buddhi etc can get us there but thats not referred to here. One should ask oneself these questions:
KG: Got it Swamiji!
JV: Now it is getting technical. I like it. This lord who wields eight fold form is ishhwara.
SS: Geeta calls it as ashtadhaa-prakriti. Lord controls it.
5 elements, mind, intellect and ego are called ashtadhaa prakriti there. In our earlier definition the moon there corresponds to the mind here and sun corresponds to the Intellect and jeeva corresponds to the ego.
DA: Thanks Swamiji. For summarise
Su: I am thinking what should be my attitude to even start thinking/looking (intellectually) at the world as the Lord.
It will take a complete shift in paradigm. My definition of the Lord will also have to change. My concept of good and bad has to change. Will have to become flexible, in a structured way! Resistance has to get diluted. It's an entire rehab program... sounds more like a revolution against all that my mind may believe now..... this itself will take a life time
Right now we serve when we suits us (I speak for myself largely)... when everything else is taken care of.... this asks us to put the world before us...
Wonderful interactions on the topic by everyone. Just to summarise: according to vedanta thinking is natural to the mind. It may be logical or illogical, structured or random, dull or bright etc.
Reflection or manan is to use scriptural logic to understand the nature of the Reality or world or Self. Yuktibhih anuchintanam is manan. It is to remove doubts and gain clarity and conviction. It can be done by oneself or through discussion with someone or a group or a lecture etc. Many ways are there for reflection.
Contemplation is called nididhyaasana. It is to remove contrary feeling that one has inspite of intellectual conviction. Vipareeta bhaavana is removed through contemplation. It is also the direct means to abide in the Reality by asserting that i am That. It is defined as adviteeya-vastuni sajaateeya-vritti-pravahaha. It is a natural consequence of reflection. No logic is used here. Words are used as pointers to lift the mind to the state indicated by the pointer and one lets go of words and pointers thereafter.
Eg. Manan would be to logically try and understand why i am not the bmi. Yet the feeling remains inspite of conviction that i am the body. Contemplation is to use pointers like chidananda rupah shivoham shivoham and drop the contrary feeling and abide in the state conveyed by chidananda rupah shivoham shivoham
We move to the next verse?
Su: Yes Swamiji
SK: Pl do Swamiji.
NG: Yes Swamiji...have been missing this class
SS: Verse 5: Serving the world with the attitude of serving the Lord is (true) worship of the Lord who is the wielder of the eight-fold forms.
Jagata isha-dhi yukta sevanam
Ashta-murti-bhrd devapujanam.
This is Ramana Maharshi's definition of Pooja. Highest form of worship is this.
Many people conveniently think that they are practising this and no other spiritual sadhana is required. How do we know whether we are ready and practicing this or its a trick of the mind?
NG: If we are truly practicing this, there should be no insistence on type of work that we will perform and insistence on a particular result? We should be able to do our duty to the best of our ability and accept whatever result as prasad - whether we like it or not?
MN: Rightly said
That prasad-bhav should apply to every action in our life then only we can say we are living upto this
KG: It's a very lofty state to see and feel the entire world as Lord. One validation could be to check attachment to loved ones. Getting purified (chitta shuddhi or peace) by every and all acts (service) done in the world.
What is the eight-fold form mentioned here?
SR: To see the entire world as the Lord..umm! With loved ones, selfless serving- somewhat easier(attachment). But the same with others, ...even that 'snob' or 'cheat' or 'thankless'....the mere thought seems impossible to us, no?
NB: i think dat a feeling of humility cmes wid actions dedicated to d Lord..n as v advance in dis practice d sense of doership also dissolves..
V slowly learn to forgive n forget n start becomin detached n more accomodating in our daily lives..
SR: I think it is possible when we look beyond the object/person we are serving & simply focus on the right action with the right attitude to the best of our capacity. This practice over a period of time with constant introspection & cross checking can help us move to the next step where every action is dedicated to the lord.
NB: Hmm...it vl also bring about efficiency in our actions as v want to do best for d Lord
SK: Seeking the Lord through thought, word and deed...like Hanumanji ever at His service, giving our best always.
SS: What is important in this practice is our bhaav of bhakti and seva. Prasad buddhi etc can get us there but thats not referred to here. One should ask oneself these questions:
- Do i see the world as a manifestation of the Lord?
If not, why dont i do worship of a form where atleast one form i can see as HIS manifestation? We dont do form worship and invoke devotion. Then how can we experience the whole world as HIS form? - are my actions done with an attitude to serve HIM and give my best without compromise? Iswaraarpitam bhav is there or not? I have to check this. Eg. I may do exercise to lose weight but i can dedicate this to the Lord and then do it. I may serve my child but i can remember that HE alone manifests as the child and do whats needed.
- Do i feel devotion while acting? Not just devotion to the work or people or country but devotion to HIM because whom i have the power to work, feel and think? I can pause for a moment amidst work and feel grateful to HIM for all His Grace.
KG: Got it Swamiji!
JV: Now it is getting technical. I like it. This lord who wields eight fold form is ishhwara.
SS: Geeta calls it as ashtadhaa-prakriti. Lord controls it.
5 elements, mind, intellect and ego are called ashtadhaa prakriti there. In our earlier definition the moon there corresponds to the mind here and sun corresponds to the Intellect and jeeva corresponds to the ego.
DA: Thanks Swamiji. For summarise
Su: I am thinking what should be my attitude to even start thinking/looking (intellectually) at the world as the Lord.
It will take a complete shift in paradigm. My definition of the Lord will also have to change. My concept of good and bad has to change. Will have to become flexible, in a structured way! Resistance has to get diluted. It's an entire rehab program... sounds more like a revolution against all that my mind may believe now..... this itself will take a life time
Right now we serve when we suits us (I speak for myself largely)... when everything else is taken care of.... this asks us to put the world before us...
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